I could mouth the platitude that “sometimes you have nights like this”. It’s true, the Wolves don’t shoot like that normally. But does that make anyone feel better? Not really. The Hornets still lost to the freakin’ 11-win Timberwolves. Again. Sigh.
The Wolves hit the Hornets with a one-two punch, drilling their outside shots and taking advantage of the Hornets limited big men on the inside all game long. The Hornets had their chances, using turnovers to stay in the game, but they simply failed to hit shots. Any sort of shots. Open shots, floaters, contested layups, jumpers, mid-range shots. It was equal opportunity misses.
You want to blame the refs? I don’t. The Hornets had five straight posessions down seven in the third – and generated an open shot on every one of them. They produced zero points.  I’m talking wide open shots. On three of them, no Minnesota player even ran at them. Make your shots – then come talk to me about the refs giving you problems.
In the end, Monty tried everyone, and everyone was atrocious.Â
Okay, Pavlovic and Paul weren’t atrocious. I think Pavlovic was very solid defensively. Once he figures out his spots on the floor on offense, he could be worth keeping around.
Jarrett Jack makes me weep.
I had some other observations early in the game, but I’m not really up to writing them right now. I’ll hold them for the podcast. Right now, I’m going to go murder some necromorphs and dream of better days when Okafor was around to at least make the paint moderately unpleasant.
135 responses to “The Wolves beat the Hornets”
Yea I saw this coming a mile away. I said on the pre-game chat they would get upset. So far I’m 1-0 with the Hornets predictions. Bitter sweet start. I hope the Bees get healthy again soon. I hate seeing Chris Paul put up big numbers and lose.
Another shit night from Belinelli. Another almost DNP from Marcus even though his defense was at least on par with our other 2 SG’s. Willie Green played well.
Marco needs to go. The Hornets are looking at 3 less season ticket holders towards their 10,000 mark if he’s still starting by the end of the season. This is just too frustrating. Condemn me if you will. I don’t give a flying F at the moment. Trust me. My ticket rep will know by the end of the week how I feel.
Someone please tell me one thing that Belinelli does better than Thornton. ONE THING. That’s all I ask. Monty’s inconsistencies in his rotations are just flat out unbelievable.
Oh, 2 bad mamba jamba plays from Pavlovic and Q-Pon tonight. Almost made the price of the admission worth stewing in my seat with the rest of the Hornet faithful around me.
Who the french is mamba jamba and why can’t you tell us how you really feel?
Man, honestly. I’ve had it with Belinelli. I can’t think of anyone else I’ve seen in the league that have flat out BRICKED so many WIDE OPEN shots. And yet again, I firmly stand by the notion that Marcus was NOT atrocious and is far superior to Belli and Green. I really didn’t see much he did wrong tonight besides maybe a missed rotation on defense. And I had pretty good seats. Please, someone disagree if you feel as strongly as I do.
It’s beyond belief to me why this guy hasn’t earned 25+ minutes every game. EVERY game. He made his first 3 shots, and missed a couple in the third, and came out of the game and we didn’t see him again. What has Belli done to hold onto his minutes? He got 28 mins tonight so that he could make that one 3 pointer at the very end of the game? So that he could head fake to no avail, and then take a hesitant, off balance jumper? Come on Monty. I love you, but COME ON.
Jarrett Jack is BAD. Forces everything. I’ve said it before, and as time goes by it just makes more sense to me–as long as CP is our man, his backup HAS to be someone who knows his boundaries. Every game it’s like he’s trying to do something to impress people because he knows he’s only going to play 15 minutes a game. So he shoots the ball more than he should, dribbles WAY too much, or drives into the paint but is too slow and then throws a bad pass or chucks up an awful shot. I can’t stand it.
And it STILL amazes me that management thinks we can “get by” with our frontcourt players. Especially now. I mean, I’m more than pissed we lost another game to a sad ball club, but how much do you expect to win when our best rebounders are Aaron Gray and David West? Not to mention Gray’s doofus cousins Jason Smith and David Anderson. Oh great. They didn’t even try to box out Kevin Love. Love KILLED us tonight. So, new big man yet?? Can it be any more obvious that our big men are wimps without Okafor? Or are we going to wait til the very last second before the trade deadline to swing a move? Luckily thats only a couple weeks away.
Trade Jack, Bellinelli, and any combo of Smith/Gray/Mbenga/Anderson. We cry and pout when one of our players goes down with an injury. But look at a team like Portland. After everything they’ve been thru with injuries, they still find a way to hang TOUGH with their opponents, and have somehow managed to keep a nice grip on that 8th seed–without Roy, without Oden, and now without Camby.
“Someone please tell me one thing that Belinelli does better than Thornton. ONE THING. That’s all I ask. Monty’s inconsistencies in his rotations are just flat out unbelievable.”
defense. and incredibly better.
Granted the defense is better, I don’t think it is by a lot. Get past the fact that Marco gets through screens better than Marcus I don’t notice much of a difference, also Marcus is a far better rebounder. I like(d) Beli, but this type of play is honestly killing me. He gets open looks that he NEEDS to make. If he isn’t making them, then why the hell is he out there?
Oh no.. please..don’t go… don’t subject us to 9,997 season ticket holders…
Pssshhhh….. please… thanks for the time you put in with the team. Go root for another team such as Boston or Orlando, LSU Homer.
How great is Dead Space 2, man. Such an excellent video game. I kinda wish I would have spent the last 4 hours of my life playing it at home rather than witnessing that beatdown at the Hive.
Oh and Marco SUCKS.
that is all.
1 – The amount of times Marcus has taken more than 16 shots all season.
Sorry Dell Demps. You and Monty’s stupid reasoning for not playing Marcus with the starters makes no sense…what…so…ever…
For those confused – “There are only a limited number of shots available in the starting lineup.” That’s why Marcus is better served on the bench.
I was a huge Belinelli supporter to start the season, but if he sucks or is not good the next 3 games, we need to make a move for Rip and try to get a back up big in return as well. Rip is trustworthy and proven, and it won’t cost anything besides expirings. Andersen and Gray played well but Gray couldn’t stay out of foul trouble. Sasha impressed me defensively big time. I think we may end up signing him for the rest of the year considering how bad Pondexter has been so far, even though I like Q-Pon’s effort on D.
Marco needs to be put on the bench Thornton needs to start, not start and get a total of 12 minutes I mean start and play 35 minutes + his line more often the not would look like this. 22 pts and 8 rebs. sometimes higher but if you give him those minutes he can play within himself and not feel like he needs to rush 8 shots because he is going to be pulled and no come back. Green just needs to be released. There are better players in the D league. Anderson could easily play 20 minutes plus and get 10 or more rebs and you know his scoring would be up there. Monty needs to stop trying to be everyone’s friend. I bet we have the most even minutes played from our bench then any other team. Teamwork is the ability to work together toward a common vision. The ability to direct individual accomplishments toward organizational objectives. It is the fuel that allows common people to attain uncommon results. The problem with the above quote is we have only two players with good individual accomplishments know one else will get the kind of time and chance if your coming off the bench..BLAH
-12
+4
Just returned from the game. Didn’t plan on going but was given 2 free tickets at last minute.
When Sasha had that block early in the game, I was out of my seat for a good minute. LOL!
I sent a text to my brother that said “It’s a good thing we don’t have to play the Timberwolves in the playoffs because the Hornets sure act like they can’t beat the damn Timberwolves.
Officials weren’t totally at fault but they did have a few bad calls tonight. They did. I definitely wanted to punch Violet Palmer in the face. I can take her. A few over the backs by Love but I don’t think there were any calls.
Kurt Rambis coached. Monty sat a lot.
Belinelli sucks. I said it before and I’ll say it again. I like his size but other than that, the guy gives us nothing. He misses wide open jumpers and that just drives me crazy.
Jarrett Jacks needs to be punched the same way Violet Palmer does but harder.
When Willie Green shot that last airball, a man 2 rows below me got up to leave. Others had already begun leaving but that was the last straw for him. I told him ‘you had to get up on that one heh?’ LOL!!
I’ve said it once and I’ll say it again, Marco Belinelli will kill the Hornets come playoff time.
I know we’re down 2 starters right now and I’m talking playoffs but if the Hornets don’t get it together, there ain’t gonna be no playoffs.
For those who want Marcus to start instead of Marco, do you think it would improve the Hornets offensively and defensively or just one? If there is a drop off in defense, that could be a costly mistake.
Honestly without Okafor + Ariza to help Marco, I think it makes no difference at this point since both are equal man to man.
Offensively it’s a help but I don’t know how big. I think we need to make a trade because I think Thornton’s best fit is as the 6th man. The energy he brings and the way he plays screams 6th man.
what about no? marco’s defense is really really good, in the lakers game and yestarday he was flawless. he bricks shots? yeah, but still the work on defense is huge, and the contribution is still very positive. if you can’t see that, well i’m sorry but you need to learn the basics of basketball.
Upgrade on both. Marcus is more athletic and instinctive than Belinelli on that end. First, his rotations have actually VASTLY improved while Belinelli’s lack of closing speed has started to expose his inability to guard the 3 ball. Marcus will occasionally get beat off the dribble (so will Beli), but Beli also has the big man (Mek) guarding his back while Marcus normally has Smith or, if he’s lucky, Mbenga.
Oh and
Paul/Ariza >>> 1 mile >>> Jack/Green. Beli’s job on defense is quite simplistic compared to what is being asked of Marcus off the bench. You don’t see him having to switch on the Kevin Durant’s of the world. Ariza and Paul stick their guys, while Jack and Green cheat off or hedge and rely on rotations to patch the holes.
Bottom Line – We need to know the answer to your query. Marcus has been our best defensive shooting guard most games lately, no reason to expect a promotion into the starting lineup to change his attitude. On the contrary, Marcus will probably fight like a rabid dog to keep his job, as he’s already showing in his limited minutes.
That’s how I feel. You asked. Now you know.
Great point as to which big men are backing up whom. Belli gets the easy way out, Marcus doesn’t.
ahahahahahahhahah that’s pretty hilarious, the most hilarious post i ever read… marcus discovered the aids cure, marcus is the first man on mars, marcus is the best lover of the world. man, the big “love heart” in your eyes when marcus is on the floor disturbing your vision, seriously.
And Beli’s got his Italian sausage so far up your throat that you are going around -1 ing any Marcus post and calling Belinelli an elite defender. Nice. We get it. Your name speaks for itself.
yeah… you’re the one who, just a week ago chanted about the great monty williams and how you were wrong about him right?
L.O.L.
Marcus’ defensive efforts have increased tremendously…everyone sees that! A move is needed, I only hope coach doesn’t pretend not to see it…the entire team suffers because of it. What justifies one getting the opportunity over another? If one doesn’t work after being given opportunities, try another…it’s called COACHING! My fear is that Monty will hold onto these lame principles while games you should win, are lost!
efforts increased tremendously, not the result.
I think the whole deal with Marcus being bad on D is a bit overrated. To me he just plays a different style of D. He’s not necessarily going to lock his man down, but he is quick and can read passing lanes pretty well and at least bother people when they shoot. I do agree that his play style is so energetic that he is best coming off the bench, but that doesn’t mean he can’t get starter’s minutes. I see him having a role like Terry has and Ginobli did for years. To me he is like JR Smith without the attitude problems.
Smarter and better than JR imo
Both. Marcus has an undying confidence when he takes shots, and that is invaluable. And he shoots at a high percentage. Defensively, he’s far more athletic than Belli and can create more turnovers. He’s better at stealing, blocking shots, and playing scrappy D. He doesn’t need to start, but he needs and deserves 30 mins a game. Have him come off the bench as the 6th man for fucks sake, but give him the minutes. How is it not obvious to management that he’s not only our best SG but one of our best players??
That was a painful shooting display to watch. Is that our worst loss of the season? Even with our guys out, I have to say so. Phenomenally tough night for Bellinelli. You know this poor shooting’s gotta be getting to him. I just don’t think he’s mentally tough enough to be a major contributor. When you miss that many wide open threes, you’re just straight choking. With a point guard like Paul, you don’t have to be great at making your own shots, but when you get a wide open shot, you’ve got to make them at an average clip. . . AT LEAST.
And Jack-Jack. . . come on. Can we call Pargo and see what he’s up to?
completely agree with doghouse… marco is simply just not a good player im sorry ive tried all year to give him chances but having one solid game out of 15 does not give you a starter for a playoff team. start marcus get him more minutes have marco get the 12 min off the bench. he missed 3 WIDE open shots. i could have made them
aren’t you and doghouse the same person? lol
Yeah…what worries me is if they start disagreeing with each other : ) j/k…
Man, I hate having to go home and watch a beat down by the T’Wolves. I’d almost rather stay at work.
lol well some yet… i do believe monty is no playing him for some reason other than him not being the best shooting guard on the team because it is obvious he is far and away the best option at the 2 we have.
when marcus scores 8 in 12 minutes and only made one defensive error when he let ellington get past him on that long pass for a layup the coach needs to re evaluate his rotations… marcus didnt get in until 5 min left in the 2nd quarter when we were already down 14
I just have a problem with Jack, his past may seem to be fairly good, but ever since he’s gotten here he’s had one night that impressed me (when he went off for around 20 against Toronto I think?). Otherwise, he has been pathetic, a shoot first pg who just cannot score anyway. Also, his ability to set people up just hasn’t been there. I bet his ast/to ratio is pretty awful as well. When he came in the 4th I said well there goes all chance of a comeback, and the beginning of the 4th was, needless to say, terrible…. just had to vent that out, a loss to an 11 win team brings out the worst in me.
For the record, I posted this before the Timberwolves game:
“When is someone going to write an article questioning how the 2nd, 3rd and 4th string Hornet big men can play so well, especially their scoring offense, when starting or playing with the starters and play so poorly off of the bench and with the second team? Could it be that Jarrett Jack is way too much of a shoot first PG and Marcus is way too much of a shoot only guard?”
Queenbee I agree with everything you said, is there a way for the Hornets to know how we feel? I mean how could they be so blind? Aren’t they humans like us? How can Monty play Bellinelli so much? The guy deserves to be on the bench. Honestly I’ve been a Hornet fan since inception and currently I am embarrassed because this season is our chance let’s not blow it!! Wtf
@MaxJD_Nola2NYC-Marco must have bad pictures of Monty or something. LOL!! That’s all I can come up with right now.
This season is our chance you say? Chance for what exactly? The Hornets are probably one and done this playoffs. They most certainly are if Belinelli is the shooting guard. Right now I can’t even say “Marco will up his play during the playoffs.” I don’t see anything like that happening AT ALL. And they are most certainly one and done if the officials are afraid to give us calls because of the league owning us. And I’m pretty sure by the playoffs, they will still own us.
I mean seriously, 2 of the Wolves’ 12 wins are against the Hornets. That’s inexcusable to me. I know every team is an NBA team and you can lose to any team on any given night, but this is inexcusible. The Wolves aren’t going ANYWHERE this season.
Hornets MVP: Chris Paul, who called Monday’s game “one of†the most disappointing losses of the season, totaled 17 points, six rebounds, 13 assists and four steals, but obviously took no consolation from his all-around game. “(Minnesota is) a team with 12 wins, and two of them were against us,†Paul said, after NOLA dropped to 0-2 against the Wolves this season. “They were out there all ‘rah-rah’ and talking junk and stuff, but I guess they deserved (the win) tonight.â€
http://neworleanshornetsblog.blogspot.com/2011/02/hornetscom-postgame-wolves-104-hornets.html
So I guess when you know you’re not going anywhere you can afford to be all rah’rah and talk junk when you beat a team twice. Yeah.
I agree at this point starting Marcus and letting him play for 30 plus minutes and giving Belli 11 minutes off the bench would be a great improvement at this point. Even if it was a temporary move what could it hurt. I don’t believe the coach is smart enough to do it though. He is losing ground with this team and I’m afraid we will not even make the playoffs. His rotations are horrible and his use of scorers is atrocious. He takes players out of the game right inthe middle of a run. That is just bad coaching.
Right. It’s like he’s too concerned with making everyone happy. He needs to be concerned with how to win games. We’ve lost games that we just should not have lost. And Monty’s rotations get a good portion of the blame for this. He never seems to know how to ride a hot hand. When guys are sucking he’s trying to show he has ‘faith and trust’ in them. I understand that, but it ain’t gettin you wins bruh. Come on now.
Well, I guess we should at least be happy we’re not the Cavs right? Hell, they might get a win on us too. Good thing they took that one off of ESPN. LMAO!
hahahah
+1 on seeing this one coming a mile away. I made my first sportsbet of the year tonight and I didn’t go with the bees. Just mad I didn’t go with the moneyline.
Does anyone on here not agree that we would like to see Marcus play 30+ minutes for the next 5 games and see what happens.
Me.
I said this after the Laker’s game, and I’ll say it again. Coaches don’t play (so they can’t be blamed for missed shots, poor defensive performances, etc.), but I believe that moves should have been made during the Laker’s game (hell, they fought too darn hard to come up on the losing end…despite having the obvious injuries). Tonight, we stayed with Benga to damn long (he was all over the place)…he killed us. At one point, we were 15 pts. down and had not one scorer in the game! Why? No excuses coach…none! Then when you thought it couldn’t get any better, the game is practically over, and who comes into the game, Paul & West…give me a break!!! Why on earth would any coach in their right freaking mind do that? We let these chumps kick our ass, and from a coaching perspective, did very little. Sasha…shit, you’ve gotta do alot more than that to get my vote…SHIT, YOU’RE IN THE NBA! Guys in college do this type of thing, game in and game out…not impressed (YET). There were countless opportunities to make line-up changes, and even though we were yelling this as loud as we could…NOTHING HAPPENED! As a result, we lost…because we deserved to! I hope we can learn from this and get it together. We are a better team, but any coach can coach a group of guys when games are going good…but hell, don’t just sit there when things aren’t:( On postgame, Monty stated that we only have two real players on the team…all other guys are effort players…DAMN!
He added that one could be an all-star one day.
Well that should really build team confidence
Just giving the full message.
I’ll take a team that deals with reality over one that thinks it’s better than it is. Good players playing good games is superior to good players trying to be great, trying to force greatness.
Sorry bro. I guess we shouldn’t pursue upgrades at any position so we don’t have any aspirations to be better than we are.
I agree 42. Belinelli AND Monty both think Belinelli is better than he is.
Upon acquiring Belinelli, this is one of the things he said…
“It was difficult,†Belinelli said of his sporadic playing time, “but after that situation, I’m a better player and a better person. Mentally, I’m stronger. Every year I’ve gotten better, from the first year to the third year. I think this year can be really good for me and I can play an important role.â€
http://www.nba.com/hornets/news/2010_training_camp_profiles_belinelli.html#
Yeah buddy. I see why your playing time was ‘SPORADIC’!!
Doghouse: That’s a bad guess.
please tell me Monty was referring to Marcus. Cuz it sure won’t be Marco or anyone else.
Emeka, with Chris and David being the other 2.
Another thing Monty seems to do a lot is letting the other team keep at least 2 starters on the court and Monty keeps all bench players on the court. Come on son. Adjust.
And now we have 2 roadies coming up and the Bulls coming in on Saturday. Hornets really need to put another WINNING streak together. They’d better stop this bleeding in NJ.
Something I just thought I’d post here after reading something elsewhere.
For anyone that thinks Jarrett Jack is a Hornet only because he’s CP3’s ‘friend’ obviously doesn’t realize Jack has a history with Monty Williams too. Jack goes way back with Monty. I don’t think CP3 would let friendship get in his way of winning. If Jack got in his way of winning I’m sure he wouldn’t shed any tears if Jack were to leave.
“He taught me really how to be a professional at the NBA level,†Jack said. “We kind of knew each other through my dad. He really taught me the ropes, taught me how to be professional. A lot of what you see as far as me carrying myself at this level is what he has taught me.â€
“Before Jack ever ended up in Portland, the Jack family was making a difference in future coach Monty Williams life.”
http://blogs.thescore.com/tbj/2010/11/22/jarrett-jack-monty-williams-have-a-history/
Hell if that’s the case, and if they want to go around collecting all of CP3’s “friends”, they should go get Rudy Gay. He’s friends with Chris too. Haha.
Really?!?! We lost to the T-Wolves AGAIN!!! I had a project due tonight and I was thinking psshhh the Hornets got this one in the bag if they played with the same intensity as they did against the Lakers. But of course they had to disappoint me once again -_- smh
Normally when the Hornets lose to a team that they have no right losing to, I get depressed. This time? I’m just angry, real angry. I didn’t see the game, so I can’t comment on individual performances, coaching, refs etc, but it’s games like this that make me think that in the playoffs (if we even make it) we’ll be one and done. It’ll be 2009 all over again…
that game was so f**king depressing to watch….why was DJ in the game? why is Dj on our team? Why does Dj even play basketball? Why is Marco still getting playing time when he has been horrible? willie green is more consistent then belli….somebody just tell willie to not shoot 3s….Marcus needs to be starting ….Monty an asshole for that one…When David West missed that fastbreak layup our come back wasnt meant to be i guess but why didnt he dunk the ball again?… Chris Paul if your reading START PLAYING EVERY QUARTER LIKE 3RD QUARTERS ….ps David Anderson not a bad player
Are the Hornets even considering making moves?! I never see it mentioned on Hoopshype. I know that doesn’t mean it isn’t happening, but I have seen no indication that management even feels a move is necessary. To the guys who run the Blog, can you let me know if moves are being contemplated?
Marco is the worst starting 2 in the L. I would gladly take Bogans from Chicago for Marco and Willie Green, at least then Monty would have to play Marcus 28 plus minutes.
Andersen and Jay Smith are essentially the same player, if one of those and DJ could be dealt for a solid back-up C the Hornets would be better for it.
I feel that a line-up of 1 – CP/JJ 2 – Bogans/Thornton 3 – Ariza/Q-Pon/Pavlovic 4 – West/Smith/Andersen 5 – Mek/Anyone decent would take NOH further in the play-offs than we would go right now.
Why hasn’t New Orleans gone after Rip or Nick Young already?
Moves are being contemplated, but it’s hard when the NBA owns the team and the only expendable assets that have any real value is a 9 million dollar exception and some expiring contracts.
Rip would kill their future flexibility and Nick Young is hardly what I would call available, especially for what the Hornets can offer.
But, what in the hell did Gray do wrong that he was sat?
The insanity that you suggest is only players was also coaching responsibilities.
You had a big man killing you inside.
Your plan was to replace Gray, who had been keeping the inside clean for the better part, with Smith?
A guy who notoriously can’t play the center role?
I didn’t mind MBenga. I wanted him used until he fouled out.
But I am really stunned by Monty’s player substitution the entire 3rd and certainly 4th periods.
He was plain and awfully poor at coaching last night.
IF you are going to tell me Gray missed an assignment, or did something poorly last night, then the entire team would have been benched by half time.
So really, there is no explanation, other than Gray being injured, for the absolute horrible coaching matchups last night.
Horrible.
Gray went to the locker room early with the equipment manager, but played after. 2 fouls in 17 minutes isn’t foul trouble. 8 rebounds, 1 turnover. 4 points, 50% shooting.
He played equal time with Mbenga, so it may be an arbitrary minute managing thing Monty is working. Mbenga’s line was ok, but he had a few boneheaded moves, too.
YEs..
By the way, hello 42. Keep reading your very funny replies to the sometimes outrageous rantings of many. I so enjoy your ability to gently reprimand.
My point is, this is the NBA. You need to win.
There is no reason I will accept that MBenga and especially Smith…both were used to the point of surrender that late third and 4th qtr.
To simply allow LOve to tear your insides out ove and over without a substitution will never be accepted by me.
It was, as I said, a very poor coaching job.
OK.
I like the general tone and understand the feelings about the poor shooting.
The defense wasn’t there except perhaps a little in the first and third periods.
During Gray’s initial appearance, his guards were so horrible, I would have pulled every one of them aside during a time out and asked why they had a uniform on.
Our GOD Paul was poor. I don’t think he got his first basket until the second half…or so it seemed.
If Gray did clear out, they shot at will from the outside.
Our outside defense was non existent.
13,401. Good for a Monday. Remember when there were 11k games?
by the way…
I see you image is that of Ozzy.
Years ago, before you were born, I saw him on stage in Chicago with his band.
It was long ago and can’t rememer all the details, but some how I remember his lead guitar layer losing it.
It was, I think, the concert he began rapping his guitar cord around himself.
Can’t really remember the , well…let’s just say hazy/fuzzy memory…prevents me from remembering it all.
I’ll be seeing him a week from tomorrow in Nashville.
I saw him with Sabbath and Mississippi.
And don’t forget Kermit!
Who’s gently reprimanding? I don’t see anyone gently reprimanding. No one in here but us chickens . . .
Thanks for the kind words, though.
Have to give the Timberwolves some credit, sinking all 25 free throw attempts and the huge game from Kevin Love would put Minnesota in a position to beat anyone.
Plus the game was on NBA TV, they might have been a little more hyped up for that game.
Bad game to have nice seats.
I get all of the Thornton/Marco debate. I think Thornton is the better player. I really do. But I also think you guys think he’s amazing, when he’s just simply okay. He’s a good scorer, a mediocre defender, and let’s not forget he’s a good 2 or 3 inches shorter than anyone he’ll be guarding. You might say that height doesn’t matter, but when you a have a taller, more athletic 2 guard, especially one that is a starter, Thornton would probably have problems defending him. Then Paul would have to switch, and Thornton would be left defending a point guard who is probably quick enough to beat him off the dribble.
All I’m saying is you don’t see a lot of 6’2 shooting guards starting in the NBA.
Condolence cards for JNR? Just for fun?
There would be a lot of pictures of Hornets fans crying.
Ha.
I mean for you, by your adoring public.
Your logic makes no sense. If MT5 can’t handle him because of his height, we stick the shorter CP3 on him? The ability to make people uncomfortable offensively on the perimeter is really what matters. That’s why CP3 can guard some taller superstars than him. You don’t block jump shooters. You get them out of their rhythm (Marco has 2 blocks total this year). Besides, there are other little things that contribute to offensive rhythm like not being athletic enough to grab loose balls, defensive rebound, or box out the athletic 2’s.
Do you know why you put the shorter CP3 on those guards?
Because Chris Paul is good enough defensively to make up for his height disadvantage. Thornton isn’t. I’m not dissing the guy. Just saying what I see.
Your logic makes complete sense JNR. Marcus isn’t amazing. He’s good. But not amazing.
Isn’t Jason Terry the perfect comparison? I get smashed for saying that. But I know it’s true.
I don’t mean to nitpick but Marcus is 6’4. If he was 6’2, that would definitely be a problem tho. 6’4 isn’t ideal of course, but Eric Gordon, Ben Gordon, Wade, Jason Terry, and i think Ginobli are all 6’4 and under. Monty needs to make the other team match up with him. Monty seems to play his wing players based on matching up with the other team.
Sorry about that. I bet Stubhub figured this would be an easy win.
Beli shot a whopping 38% tonight on all uncontested shots. He is absolutly brutal and is hands down the worst starting SG in the league. I want to punch that stupid look off of his face. When the Warriors and Raptors give up on you that probably should tell you something.
It is also time for Jack’s game streak to end. He is almost at -100 since he was aquired by far the worst on the team.
4 blocks out of Sasha loved his effort.
I have been saying it since the start of the year Monty is a very poor NBA coach who loves to play his favorites. Way to many garbage guys getting minutes. Marcus should get over 30, Marco shouldn’t be on a roster. Hell Marco was so stunned that he hit a wide open three the wolves burned him up the court on the other end for a layup then he gives you that stupid look. Guy doesn’t belong on a NBA roster and brings NOTHING to the team.
Wish they would admit their mistake and find a coach or Paul is going bye bye. How many years am I going to have to suffer with Monty. We would have a better record right now with Bower at the helms.
Defensive rotation. It’s not the shooter that should be back. It’s the last line of defense. It should have been either Jack or Green.
Monty Williams is having a historic year, yet you want Bower? WOW.
Dude, Bower is a piece of trash and an airhead. Tim Floyd was coaching that team in essence. Bower shouldn’t come near a coaching spot ever again. He doesn’t know what defense is.
Yea agreed. Montys a better assistant coach than anything for all his defensive schemes but as far as overall coaching he should probably be taking a back seat and just deal with one aspect of the game. Bellinelli playing as much as he does boggles my mind. As someone mentioned earlier, there is a reason why you never got a chance in your career!!!!
Couldn’t help but HAVE to jump in here. Some of this crap is sooo ridiculous.
First off, yes, Marcus Thornton has improved his defense. But that DOES NOT now make him a good defender. He’s trying harder, and it’s a start. But he is still learning his rotations. He is in no way shape or form a better defender than Marco is. The one thing I will give Marcus on defense over Belinelli is that he is a better help side shot blocker. But defense is not just about being “athletic”. If you’re going to tell me Bruce Bowen was “athletic”, then, well… I’m gonna tell you that you’re an idiot.
Doghouse and MAX, your comments are the most BIASED comments I have ever seen in protecting a player. You guys and NOLABanks are more concerned with trading away players to make more time for Marcus than you are with building a complete team. Thats just ridiculous to me.
Here are some numbers for you all. I think this might explain things for us a little better:
MARCO BELINELLI:
FG%: .408
3FG%: .376
PER: 10.26
MARCUS THORNTON:
FG%: .408
3FG%: .360
PER: 13.78
WILLIE GREEN:
FG%: .435
3FG%: .320
PER: 9.72
JARRETT JACK:
FG%: .371
3FG%: .246
PER: 11.12
Jack’s numbers are slightly skewed since he had such time on the Raptors, and wasn’t getting significant minutes on this team to effect him too much. But while on the Raptors, I belive his PER was around 14-15. So you see the drop for him. But look at those percentages. Especially the 3FG%.
I was not happy about the Jack trade. I didn’t think he’d help us because hes USED to starters minutes. To go from 35 minutes a night, down to 10-15 is brutal. It completely takes a player out of rhythm. I don’t think he’s the right fit for us. We should have a player that is USED to playing 10-15 minutes a night and excelling at it. Bayless fit that, and would have only improved and molded into that roll. Other guys that could too? Beno Udrih. Sebastian Telfair. J.J. Barea. Boobie Gibson.
We don’t need a superstar back up PG. We need someone to be the right fit. I still don’t think Jack is the right fit. And I can see the frustration building on his face, off the bench.
As for Willie Green. He’s a tough little guy, probably a great Veteran in the locker room. But the guy just chucks and heaves at every half open look he gets. He’s a tough defender, but he is also undersized, and doesn’t make the smartest decisions on the court. He has a 9.72 PER. The lowest of these four. It’s HIS time that I feel should be given to Marcus Thornton. Not Marcos.
Ideal situation for this TEAM? Trading Jarrett Jack for a more reliable BACKUP PG, and landing a back up big. Example: Beno Udrih and Jason Thompson for Jarrett Jack and Marcus Banks with added parts if needed.
I keep hearing “trade Marco”. That makes no sense. We have a really nice tandem here that in due time can be DEADLY. Both these guys are young, and both play their asses off. Unless I’m getting a BIG upgrade, I look to build INTERNALLY.
P.S.
Anyone in their wildest dreams think David Anderson would be the steal of the Peja-Jack trade? LoL.
I never said trade Marco. I said bench the fool.
It’s funny that you can make the same excuses for Jack that I make for Thornton and mine are ridiculous. Talk about biased. And now you are down about the Jack trade when you stated he should be our starting SG not even a month and a half ago?
Ziko, once again. Take away Marco’s mirage beginning to this season and those numbers get SIGNIFICANTLY worse.
December 1 – Lakers game (35 games)
MARCO BELINELLI
FG%: .388
3PT%: .338
PER: >10
It’s ok to admit your wrong. We know you have it in you. You are now using Bruce Bowen’s lack of athletic ability to prove your point that Marco is an “elite” defender. Holy Cow. Do you re-read any of the throw-up you write in the comments?
Doghouse seriously bro I think you’re the one that likes to misread comments. No where did Ziko say that Marco was an “elite” defender. He was just saying that you don’t need to have athleticism to become one. This was said because most of you said athleticism translates to being a better defender which is not true. Bowen was a prime example.
I remembered a time not too long ago when Thornton wasn’t making shots AT ALL and most of us stood behind him. All I’m trying to say is that with a backcourt of Thornton, Green, Belinelli, and Jack who would be your top 2 choices 🙂 Btw I think Marco can offer so much more than what he has been giving us.
Agreed. Trading marco makes no sense because he has zero value. There is nothing about Marco’s game that screams deadly. You truely delusial about Marco. He will be out of the league and back in Europe in two years.
I will bet you that Marcus Thornton will be traded before Marco Belinelli is back in Europe.
Marco will sign a 3 year, $11 million deal this summer. Put me on record calling that.
I may be biased but I have NEVER put MT on the pedestal of a superstar caliber. My comments center around how ridiculous it is to see a building block on this team getting benched in favor of a choke artist who should not play any more than 20 minutes a game.
That comment itself might be biased, but I really don’t see it any other way. Many people consider PER to be the most telling statistic. MT has the best PER of those players you listed. WHY do we play a worse player in his place?? You gave us the stats, but ignore what you are suggesting. I’m not trying to over-glorify Thornton, but my comments get blown out of proportion because I value him more than our starting SG, who does NOT DO ENOUGH to earn his minutes. He got 28 mins last night and put up 16 shots, making 6 of them. Is that why he played so much? For solid D at best and bad shooting? Always the bad shooting. Wasn’t it you who compared MT with Terry? Is Terry NOT a crucial, integral part of that team?
and btw MaxALM=me
See Max/Pluto, this is where we are finally making some ground and are on the same page.
For whatever reason, people have dubbed me as a “Marcus Hater”. I am NOT one. I actually love the guy. I think he’s a great scorer and a really talented kid with a bright future, hopefully with this team. But people here have rooted AGAINST Monty and players like Marco, and Ariza EVEN DURING THE 11-1 STRETCH TO START THE SEASON, just because Marcus didn’t get as much time as they would like to see. I am, and always have been, someone who thinks with a TEAM approach. NOT with the focus of an individual.
I have NEVER said Marcus ISN’T a crucial and integral part of this TEAM. I think we REALLY need him to play well. Especially as a SCORER off the bench. I’ve said over and over again I want him to be OUR Jason Terry/Manu Ginobili off the bench. Yet I get ridiculed about that? People have bashed me saying Marcus is a “Perennial All Star” and a “Super Star” in this league, and I personally don’t see him as THAT good of a player.
If I was coach of this team, I would ALSO bring Marcus off the bench, and I’d have him split time with Marco. Marco to start the games to spread the floor and to play defense and be our Sefolosha/Afflalo, Marcus to finish the games and be our big time scorer. I honestly wouldn’t give as much time to Willie Green, who has the lowest PER of that group. That was the point I was trying to prove.
I look at Marco and Marcus as a 1-2 punch. MARCOCUS!
The problem with all this is we have a really damn good record right now, much better than what ANYONE projected us to have, and we are playing the best defense in the league. So… How do you argue that to Monty? If we were 21-32 and Marcus wasn’t playing? Dude, I’d be PISSED. But we’re not. We’re 32-21, in a tough stretch due to injuries, and were playing DAMN well before the injuries happened.
How do you argue that? How do you complain? Look at what people have said about Monty dude. It’s honestly ridiculous the scrutiny the guy has received when he REALLY is building something that has the potential to be special. And instead of people looking at it as a team that can be REALLY dangerous come playoff time, and a SERIOUS title contender from the get go next season, people are bashing the players that have put us where we are.
Does this make better sense as to what I’m saying?
Honest truth Max/Pluto, if I had it my way, I’d have Marcus playing A LOT, and finishing most of, if not all my games. But I look at things from a much broader perspective and try to analyze what this team is trying to build.
Look at this team and analyze the MAKE UP of it and compare it to prior Spurs teams when Duncan was the go to guy, and try to remember the systems those teams had in place to make those teams as great as they were. It always took them TIME to build and put the right pieces into place. This team has the make up to do something VERY similar. The difference is that we’d be doing it with very YOUNG pieces, versus the way San Antonio did it with Vets.
I have NEVER once said Marco is better than Marcus. But I know we need BOTH of those guys to play well to be a REALLY GOOD team, as opposed to a good one. Because when no matter how good any of us think Marcus is, I KNOW he’s not better than Kobe or Ginobili. BUT imagine Max/Pluto, if we get Marco to come in and start playing the way he did to start the year when he averaged 11-14 points a game and play tough defense and wear guys out, and we get Marcus to come in off the bench and bring a SHITLOAD of energy and score 12-17 points a game and just be a thorn in Kobes and Ginobilis side the way Jason Terry has always done. Wouldn’t that be AWESOME?
I know it can happen. I don’t know if it will this year. But I know it can happen because both guys are capable of doing it. I look at this team and what Monty is trying to do and I GET IT. I guess all I’m saying is we need to be a little more patient and let it blossom.
Marcus had the 9th best “per” out of all Shooting guards last year AS A ROOKIE!!!! ….his minutes been up and down all year…that has to put a player out of rhythm u think? PS we dont even have to trade marco ill be fine if he is just released lol
“Marco needs to go.”
That was your exact line in your first post. What do you think we get from that?
I never said Marco was an “elite” defender. He is a really good defender dude. You come out saying he contributes nothing to the team. Thats ridiculous. He fits in REALLY nicely with this group. He isn’t having the best year. But I look at him as a piece to the puzzle.
As for Jack. You keep putting words in my mouth dude. I’m not defending him. I NEVER liked the Jack trade. I got bashed on this site for complaining about it. In fact, it was 42 and Mike who both argued with me about how much Jack would help this team. I argued these things:
-He is too good to play back up minutes
-He is USED to playing 30+ minutes a game
-He has an attitude, and it will show with lack of minutes
-He will take more time from Marcus Thornton because Monty will want to give him more time as a 2 to appease him.
I quoted Chris Paul saying “Jack is a starter in this league”. Are you seriously going to argue that?
Here’s what I got a problem with Doghouse. You tend to direct your anger of Marcus not getting enough minutes at the wrong people, and in the wrong situations. You have blamed Monty, Dell Demps, Marco Belinelli, Trevor Ariza, Willie Green, and Jarrett Jack. This makes NO SENSE to me. Every time you come out bashing people, I get defensive not towards the individual, but towards the TEAM. You’re directing your comments towards the TEAM. And I think thats just ridiculous. I love this TEAM.
Believe it or not, I am SOOO jealous of you that you have season tickets and get to go to all the games. I’d trade that in a HEART beat for all the Laker games, Anaheim Angel Games, Anaheim duck games, UCLA and USC games I go to throughout the year.
I want this team to get better. I’d LOVE to just land Dwight Howard and Kevin Durant and win championships left and right, but I know that isn’t going to happen. And right now, I don’t think ANYTHING is really gonna happen. I think we’re gonna be sitting on these guys for the rest of the season, with NO moves being made. So rather than bashing ANYONE, I try to root for EVERYONE to do good.
I’m with you on this. Marcus Thornton SHOULD play more. My honest opinion, I’d like to see Marcocus split time at the two evenly, between 25-23 minutes a game each, depending on whos playing better. But Monty likes to go DEEP into his bench and play everyone.
Last night Marcus played less because the Wolves are a LONG team. Monty played Marco and Sasha a lot of minutes because he wanted to match the length. I’m not saying I agree with his rotations. I’m saying I get why he had those rotations. The smaller guys played less.
Green: 16 minutes
Thornton: 13 minutes
Jack: 12 minutes.
As for Marco. He’s struggling right now. He’s had a tough time since he rolled his ankle. He’s a GOOD shooter, he’s just in a funk. I’ve seen plenty of games where Marcus struggles shooting. I NEVER get mad at him for his percentages. I only get mad about bad shots. If Marcus goes 6-16 while shooting OPEN shots that just weren’t falling, then hey, its cool, just an off day. Its one thing to miss open shots, and another to force bad shots.
I want to see both Marco and Marcus do good. We NEED that from them. I want EVERYONE to do good. I’m very happy to see David Anderson playing so well as of late. Gray too. I want this TEAM to do well.
I think you and I have communication issues Doghouse. We need to bond to clear the air. Fly out to OC CA and I’ll take you to any concert you want to see. We can get smashed together, and get the shit kicked out of us in a mosh pit, then walk aimlessly through a parking lot looking for the car we lost the the keys to, screaming lyrics to Got the Life, puking up the hot dogs we bought from a food stand, and laughing our asses off. Sounds like a great time, doesn’t it?
I still think Jack can really help us, but the dude needs to PASS!
I read everything you guys write, agree or not.
its like the defense know Jack isnt going to pass the ball but everybody knows that now smh
The Hornets are actively shopping Antwann Jamison according to Realgm.com
Marcus Banks, David Andersen, Jason Smith, & Willie Green
for
Antwann Jamison & Ryan Hollins
F-West, F-Ariza, C-Okafor, G-Belinelli, G-Paul
F-Jamison, F-Palvovic, C-Hollins, G-Thornton, G-Jack
L_REAZY
Where did you get this info Reazy?
Just now saw the realgm.com
I read on ESPN insider that the Hornets are interested:
UPDATE: ESPN’s Marc Stein chimed in on Jamison and the Hornets in Tuesday’s Daily Dime, writing that New Orleans “has a level or interest in [him].”
But Stein writes that sources “expressed skepticism that a suitable deal can be assembled before the deadline.”
Further, Stein reports the Cavs may not see much benefit in buying out his contract if no trade occurs.
“With word reaching us this week that the Cavs also see little benefit to buying out Jamison (one of their few coveted assets) if no trade materializes in the next two-plus weeks, odds start to increase that Jamison will be brought back with Scott for the new season — whenever that might be post-lockout — given how admirably they’ve been coping with what’s happened since Cleveland’s forgotten 7-9 start,” wrote Stein.
Guys, I think everybody’s getting all worked up over nothing. Yeah, we lost to the Wolves, but we were without our best defender(Ariza) best shot-blocker/rebounder(Okafor), and several of our guards are battling ankle injuries. The way I see it, the more time that Emeka and Trevor are out, the more experience the bench gets. i.e., Gray, Smith, Q-Pon and Sasha. We’ll hobble into the All-Star break, then get healthy and start kicking butts again. All the extra playing time that the bench gets now, can only help us come playoff time.
I noticed a lot of Bellinelli bashing going on, as if he’s to blame for our losing games this past week. Yeah, he’s in a shooting funk, but the only way out of a shooting funk is to keep chucking up shots. In the meantime, what would demoting him to the bench do? He’s gotta be low in confidence right now, and that might destroy what little he had left. No matter which side of the Marcus/Marco debate you’re on, we’re going to need both of them to have any shot of winning a playoff series. I believe Monty knows exactly what he’s doing as far as rotations go.
On a side note, congratulations to the now record-holding coach of the Cavaliers. Congrats Byron Scott, I always knew you had it in you.
Block of the Night
http://www.nba.com/video/channels/top_plays/2011/02/07/20110207_botn.nba/?ls=iref:nbahpt2
I really like Sasha on this team. I think if given time, he can be a GREAT back up SF for us. If he learns to find his spots, and continues that hustle defense, he really provides us with some much needed size at the position. Quincy is gonna be great. But he’s really undersized as a SF, and I think he’s more of a SG. Sasha’s a LEGIT 6’7, deceivingly long, and has a lot of power in his lower body, like most Slavs do. I really hope he gets signed for the rest of the season. I think he’d be a great help to us.
And that was a GREAT block. Crazy to see he had 4 of them.
You would… SLAVIC- HOMER. 😉 j/k
I have been really impressed with him defensively. But Ziko, as an ex-player it has to kill you to watch that epic-ly slllllllooooooow release on his jumper. Man, you could brew a pot of tea, if one was so inclined and/or British-y enough, in the time it takes him to get that shot from his waist to release. You said that you follow him, is that normal for him or is that something new. GOD HE IS SLOW. That might explain how he was blocked 2 or 3 times on open jumpers. haha
But I do like what he brings to the table. I think he would be necessary come playoffs and would allow Monty to not have to go with Green or Belly at the backup 3 if Q is off on a given night. Just very good defensive instincts and desire to make an impact.
42. I think Jack can help us too. But I think someone else would help us more.
Cao di Bene. Parli Italiano?
Isn’t that the funny part? Bene mentioned earlier that last night Marcus Thornton had a -12 on the court. Marco had a +4. Yet “Marco has to go”, and “Marco does NOTHING for this team”.
So ridiculous.
I’m starting to wonder. Anyone take issue with Marco being the only white/caucasian/euro guy to start? Or is it simply that he starts ahead of Marcus?
One question AgentZiko when the Hornets need a basket who would you rather have the ball in his hands Marcus or Marco? List me the starting SG’s in the league that are worse then Marco. His big attribute is he can defend? I can take Ariza’s poor FG% because he can defend and drive to the basket. If you are saying that Marco’s strong point and value to the team is his defense that is comical. He is not valuable because of his outside shot. People defend Marcus because he can take over and win the Hornets ball games period. Marco has not and will not even come close to propelling the Hornets to a win. Once again he is one of the worst starting SG in the league and will not be in the NBA in two years. When you can’t make it in Golden State and Toronto there is an issue.
If Monty wants Marco playing 8-10 mins a game ok. Marcus needs 30. I know you are grimacing just like the rest of us everytime Marco launches a shot.
I wouldn’t want either with the ball in their hands. Either of those guys have the ball in their hands at the end of the game, we lose. That’s my honest opinion. I want CP or D West with the ball in their hands. No one else after that. It’s one things for CP to create and dish to one of those 2 guys, in which case I’d settle for either taking that shot. In fact, on a CATCH AND SHOOT, I’d rather have Marco take it than Marcus.
As for “Marcus needs 30”. If he “needs” it so bad… Why isn’t he getting it? You guys keep talking about this kid like he’s some super star, and he’s not. I am willing to bet ANY of you, that Marcus will NEVER EVER be an All Star in this league. He’s just a scorer. Just like Jason Terry. JR Smith. and Jamal Crawford. I REALLY like Marcus. But I think you guys have terrible standards for him. When he does well, you guys toot your horns like its a european wedding. When he does bad, you ONLY point out the good things he did, but neglect to call out his bad points.
The writers on this blog specifically wrote an entire article about how you guys “SEE WHAT YOU WANT TO SEE” when it comes to Marcus Thornton. I found it absolutely comical how it couldn’t sink in for you guys that it was practically a heat check. Instead you guys continued with your old ways.
Look KC. I see great value in both Marco and Marcus. I have said from the start of the season, next to CP, DWest, and maybe now Okafor since he’s been playing so much better, that Marcus has the highest trade value on this team. But that doesn’t mean he has to start and play 30 minutes. I DO think he should play more than Willie Green. But I also know that Monty is implementing a SYSTEM.
Similar situations:
Jason Terry is a MUCH better scorer than Deshaun Stevenson, but Terry comes off the bench to give the Mavs scoring punch.
James Harden is a MUCH better scorer than Thabo Sefolosha is, but Thabo starts to better balance the first unit.
Jamal Crawford is a MUCH better scorer than Marvin Williams, but Williams starts to give Atlanta more length in thier short starting lineup.
JR Smith is a MUCH better scorer and game changer than Aaron Afflalo is but Smith comes of the bench so that he doesn’t take as many shot attempts away from Billups and Melo.
You guys are so hard on Monty, yet the guy does the right things. He is having a HISTORIC season defensively, yet you prefer Bower? That’s embarrassing. We have a GREAT record and have been playing great team basketball yet you’re focused on Marcus Thornton getting “his” rather than the team winning. That’s stupid to me. Makes no sense.
As for “grimacing”. I DON’T grimace when Marco shoots. I get excited and hope he makes his shots so that we do better as a TEAM.
Wanna know when I DO grimace? When Marcus goes on a 1-4 fastbreak and pulls up for a 3 pointer. That’s STUPID basketball, and that gets him on the bench.
I want to see this TEAM do well. I don’t want to see Marcus on the bench. I want EVERYONE to play as well as possible.
“Anyone take issue with Marco being the only white/caucasian/euro guy to start?”
I certainly don’t. Certainly didn’t have an issue with Peja starting either. But the way Beli’s been shooting lately, I think Peja can hit those shots sitting on the bench. LOL. I’m sorry but I just don’t see how a guy that plays a shooting guard position, starting shooting guard to boot, fails to knock down so many open shots. Would he do better hitting contested shots? I would think if you’re set up to be so wide open as he often is, he’d be able to knock down more of those shots. We need at least 3 offensive players in our starting lineup. We already have CP3 and West. We need one more. Meka and Trev are both defensive players. So that leaves getting more offensively from that other position. I’m not worrying about who starts and who finishes. I just want whomever is on the court in a Hornets uni to be productive.
QueenBee.
Last night, Marcus played 13 minutes, and was a -12 on the court.
Marco played 28 and was a +4.
Only 2 players had a higher +/- ratio and that was West, and Paul.
Yes he was 6-16. Yes he has been struggling since he hurt his ankle and hasn’t played as well as he did in the first part of the year. But some of the bashing is honestly ridiculous. It’s just not logical.
In the first meeting against the Lakers, Marco played 27 minutes, had 17 points on 5-11 shooting, with 3-4 on threes, and 4-4 FTs.
Yet he got BASHED in the comments after the game because Marcus Thornton had a DNP that game? As if it was Marco’s fault?
Or what about the game against the Warriors when Marco had 11 points and 4 assists on 5-8 shooting and played 21 minutes, and Marcus went 4-10 and had 8 points and 3 assists. What was the talk of the town? Go check. “Marcus should have played more”. And “He played SOOO hard”.
The comments to me seem so pathetic and unwarranted and biased. When I root for this team, I want the WHOLE team to do good. I really think some people are more concerned for Marcus rather than the team.
Thats the only thing I take issue with. But I too just want whomever is on the court to be productive. And last nite, even though he did score 7 points on his 3-6 shooting, he was NOT more productive than Marco was because the team struggled defensively when he was in. -12 proves that.
@AgentZiko
I’m not going to write any names or point a finger, but I will say just as a blanket statement; sports fans from smaller markets view their teams and players differently than those from larger markets. So those from Memphis or NOLA, probably aren’t going to think the same way as those from Chicago or LA.
Ziko, I’m not going mention mention anyone by name so I can’t be accused of actually insulting anyone in particular, but some fans . . . you know . . . those people . . . are just wrong and can’t help it; they’re just born that way. Their brains can’t handle the fine points.
This is in no way reminiscent of anything ever said about anyone.
Remember, this is not insulting. I said so, after all.
How about that cut over the middle Quincy had when CP3 hit him. You can see his basketball IQ is def up there.
Who here on this forum has claimed Marcus Thornton to be a superstar/All-Star? I’d like to know who.
After last season most figured Thornton would at least have a chance at a 6th Man of the Year award. Yes, like Jason Terry or Manu Ginobili. There is absolutely NOTHING with being compared to those guys. To achieve that though, you have to actually be the ‘6th man’ off of your bench. Most times if he gets off the bench at all, he’s like the 8th or 9th man off the bench.
I meant there is absolutely NOTHING WRONG with being compared to those guys.
I will readily admit, as anyone who cared to take the time to hit the “older articles” link enough to look at last offseason’s posts, I thought Marcus could be a top 10 SG in the league. Hell, as I pointed out then and someone in this thread pointed out, he was top 9 last year in PER. I had crunched the numbers during the offseason, and when he started he was actually the #6th rated SG last year. I didn’t expect such a regression, but then again I didn’t expect a coach like Monty that would be a “defense at all cost” kind of guy. I am not knocking that approach when taking over a team like the Hornets. Sometimes you need to shock the hell out of a team to reverse the pattern of play that had lead to the kind of regression that the Hornets were under.
So now that the honeymoon is over for me, I honestly think that Marcus could still be a consistent top 10 SG given another 2 or 3 years to develop. The important thing is, HE DOES NOT NEED TO START TO BE THIS PLAYER. I think, long term he is best suited to be a 6th man. I think he will flourish in that roll with continued work and improvement on defense. With more court time, as in getting 25-30 mpg off the bench he will be that guy I thought he could be.
The comparisons to Jet and Manu, in my opinion, are what he should be shooting towards. Marcus will never be Kobe or Wade. That doesn’t mean he can’t be top 10 at his position while coming off the bench. Manu was the #2 SG in the league last season, OFF THE BENCH.
Ziko, and others, may think I am bonkers but I think Marcus could some day achieve Manu-level PER and contribution to a team consistently. He does need to continue to improve on defense and work on his game as hard as CP3 does in order to get there, but I think that is his ceiling. Does that make him a perennial All-Star, nope. But it does make him a guy most anyone pick to be on their team over all but around 5 SG in the league.
Damn … ‘Agent Ziko’ is on the money with that assesment of MT5. You pretty much stated what I’ve been trying to convey to ‘HiMyFirstNameis Steven’ and others for months, but finally gave up trying to prove my point!
I wasn’t trying to be a jerk … I actually think ‘…Steven’ and others have great points, but they sort of go too far with the Marcus Thornton support!
Well put Agent Ziko …. well put!!!
L_REAZY
L Reazy and ziko—-
there is no way after watching the past few weeks you guys can both say marcus is not better than marco. there is no way in hell you can believe that or throw any stats out there to convince me otherwise. it is so blatently obvious that marcus is the best option we have at the 2 and it is ridiculous that he doesnt get playing tiome with the starters like terry does, like harden does, like crawford does, like jr does. all of those guys get many minutes with starters come in half way through the 1st quarter and play the mojority of the minutes. if you ask anybody in the league if they would love to have a jason terry of jamal crawford on there team you would probably get a 99% yes from anyone in the league. people can argue that terry and crawford have had all0star caliber seasons but do not get the nod since they come off the bench. i never said i hated the fact that marcus comes off the bench but when he gets his first playing time with 5 min left in the second and only plays a total of 12 mintues its just plain stupid. give him the option to put us in leads rather than being forced to try and make come backs for us. thats why im a big marcus fan because i truly think he is the one player outside of the big 3 (mek, chris and west) that can make a big difference for us when playoff time comes around, and from having to watch all hornets games online and getting to listen to other analysts who call the games they all agree marcus has tons of potential and could be a key contributor come playoff time
beeeee easy go marcus
Dude, here’s what you guys keep overlooking. I have NEVER said Marco is better than Marcus. I think Marco is a better defender. But I KNOW Marcus is the better player. All I have ever said is that Marcus is a REALLY GOOD 6th man type of a player. People have dubbed him a PERENNIAL All Star and Super Star, and he’s NOT one dude.
Steven, I WANT him to get PT. The way you described Crawford, Smith, Terry. Those are the minutes I want Thornton to get. I have said a million times I think Green should get less minutes and Thornton should play more.
I think Thornton is a GREAT 6th man. And thats what I want him to be. He SHOULD get more minutes. But not as a starter. That is ALL I have said, but people keep misconstruing what I’m saying.
ziko i dont disagree with you but the problem is he doesnt get 6th man minutes… he is generally our last bench player to get pt and it makes no sense. honestly i do not see much of an advantage for belly on the defensive end. he isnt as quick he misses just as many rotations and the only thing he does better is body up people because he is bigger…. i dont mind thorton being 6th man and getting the same situational minutes as terry and crawford but he doesnt get those minutes and thats the main issue. he is playing out there with jack anderson gray q pon and mbendga those kind of players and of course he is going to seem less effecient because he is forced to go out and make plays… i know ive seen some stats out there that say what the best +/- 5 man rotation the hornets throw out there and can swear ive seen the best 5 man team is marcus paul d west mek and ariza. the problem is that this 5 man combo doesnt get many mintues together unless its late in the 4th when we are in close games against good teams. yes i love those minutes when marcus gets to play with the big boys but he needs to get many more minutes with our best players…. i say 25-30 minutes total a game and at least 15-20 minutes with either mek and west, mek and chris, or chris and west out there
this is the best hornets website by far…. yall follow me on twitter @PeeDeeDoakes
Hey does anybody know the timetable on Ariza’s and Okafor’s return??? With them back it will definitely ease the pain of these last few games.
Check the Bee Bite from today.
Steven how do you watch your games online. I live in Boston and I struggle with watchin these hornets games. Btw everyone go vote for the hornets game for fan night next Tuesday on nbatv pleeeeeeeeeeeease!!!!
I watch them on NBA League Pass on my computer JS. If they are on NBA TV, or nationally televised (LoL) I watch them on TV.
thanks for the info i need to look into league pass
atdhe.me
Whatever happened to those fast break points MT5 got last year? Speed and the ability to finish are to his advantage. Seems like this year everyone is scared and just throws the ball back to CP3 even if Paul is standing still 15 ft behind them.
Marco is an average defender and not a good fit for us offensively. He can’t hit the open jumper, lacks confidence, can’t create his own shot or shots for others.
MT5 should start. Marco is a 3rd guard on the Golden State Warriors and Toronto Raptors.
The fast break points are mostly gone because of the team rebounding Monty implemented. Frankly, I think it’s for the best. Without that approach there is no way that the Hornets would be out-rebounding their opposition so far this year.
Yeah, I have seen MT5 and others crashing the defensive boards a lot more then last year. Makes sense Joe.
Oh God. Ziko has hijacked the thread. I have officially stopped reading.
Marco does need to go for one reason and one reason alone. Monty will not be tempted to play some maroon that’s not worth the playing time he’s getting.
And don’t give me the quoting Paul crap. You are literally one of the biggest liars I have ever met. On top of it, you do it all to try to please people 2000 miles away from you on the INTERNET.
Chris Paul did not say that JJ would start on 20 teams in this league. You did. I didn’t put those words in your mouth.
If you are still sticking by Marco being a legitimate SG in this league, you are as much up Monty’s ass as I am Marcus’. Get over it. At least I can admit I’m up Marcus’ ass constantly.
Um, getting a little worse than usual here.
The problem is not just the players.
Yes, we don’t have the talent the top teams have.
Yes, we do have a young team and an even younger coach.
Both were out played last night, but it needs to be qualified.
The coach should never lose games. Players are facing guys who are played millions to beat you every night. This isn’t high school or college.
There are players making more than most humans playing against you.
So you can be beaten.
Not so the coach.
Last night Monty was out coached….I THINK.
I say I think because we do not know the full story.
We most likely never do.
I think he screwed up with his matchups.
Keeping Smith in, after being sick AND EVERBODY knows he can’t play center, especially against giants of which there were two last night…was wrong.
Now, perhaps Gray was hurting…dunno.
But I saw the game, I know the stats.
When Gray was in, their inside game became null and their game became an outside 3 point schooling.
THAT’s where we got beat.
Our outside defense sucked.
And coach allowed us to be killed inside the 4th qtr on.
It was pathetic watching them dunk and dunk and dunk on us.
All the while Gray sat.
MBenga, OK…use him until he fouls out or Gray can come back.
But to watch him concentrate on blocking shots instead of BLOCKING OUT is maddening.
Monty looked like a deer in headlights last night.
Now, if your gonna reply to this, try not to be sophmoric and keep to the thoughtful and meaningful…not the cussing or ranting.
If Monty want’s an offensively inept player who brings nothing to the 2 guard spot but defense, just switch Pavlovic there once Ariza is back. Marco has no place on this team. He misses wide open looks and his defense can’t touch Pavlovic’s. The difference between the two of them is Pavlovic will be like Morris Peterson, he will make the extra pass when he is open, while Marco will brick it. I rarely post on this site, but I had said it once before and I’ll say it again, the Hornets are a one trick Pony when the 2 guard can’t drive to the hole or sink open 3s.
Most importantly, Monty is a terrible head coach. Yeah, he’s a great defensive coach, too bad offense and understanding rotations are involved in coaching also. Marcus needs to be the first guy off the bench no questions asked. He can come in late in the first with instant offense as an advantage. He can stay in early in the second to facilitate our offense when our Vanilla PF’s can’t hit their jumpers. Finally do NOT play him with JJ. JJ is just a terrible version of what Marcus is on this team. Someone who pounds the ball too much but lacks the ability to get to (let alone finish) around the rim. He rarely passes, and I have seen him miss open shooters that Paul would have no problem finding. Trading away Bayless was the worst mistake the Hornets made this season. He was a much better backup PG than Jack. Jack needs to go play for some terrible team and do mediocre to feel good about himself. The Hornets need some like Luke Ridnour, JJ Barrea, Sebastian Telfair, or (best option) Boobie Gibson running back up point. Someone used to playing 10-15 mins a game, and being effective at it.