New Orleans started off the game by going 5 for 21 in the first quarter and conventional wisdom said that there was no place to go but up. Conventional wisdom was wrong. After an embarressing first quarter, the Hornets topped themselves by going 1 for 21 in the second quarter. They finished the first half with just 23 points and the second half wasn’t much better despite what the box score says.
I know most observers will say that the result was do to a lack of effort, but I just don’t buy that. The effort was there, especially in the second half when they were fighting hard to avoid being utterly humiliated. The poor production on the offensive end was a result of an off day combined with the Hornets not playing intelligently and them pressing because of their slow start. Of course they weren’t playing with playoff type intensity or even the intensity they showed in the first 10 games, but effort wouldn’t get the largest piece in the responsibility pie.
Defensively the team was solid most of the time and made their rotations for the most part, but you aren’t going to beat anybody when you only score 70 points. The frustrating part was that even after the Hornets got stops, they seemed content to just walk the ball up the court and play half court basketball rather than try to get some easy points in transition. Beyond that, there did not seem to be any desire to try to get to the free throw line until late in the second quarter, when they were already down 19 points. In fact, in the first seventeen and a half minutes, the Hornets only drew one shooting foul.
Days like this will happen, especially when a team plays a Sunday game at 11 AM local time, but you just wish it would happen against teams they would lose to in most cases anyway. If this happened at Boston or Orlando, for instance, you just take the loss and move on. But this happened at Philadelphia against a team that a Western Conference playoff bound team should win 8 out of 10 times.
No need to address this game any further, I would rather hear from all of you. Besides I have got to save this venom for my podcast with Ryan tonight.
What you got Hornets nation?
125 responses to “Hornets Offense Misses Team Flight as Sixers Cruise to Victory”
MARCUS…THORNTON… For no other reason, just to try. Time to admit something’s wrong Monty. Switch it up.
Oh, and I’ll take Q-Pon in the starting lineup over Ariza now too. Make Ariza earn his damn starting job back.
Yeah, I have to agree with Bees. Thornton should be getting Willie Green’s minutes. If we want to be a good team, we can’t rely on him as our 6th man…he’s just not explosive enough as a scorer. I missed the game because it was so early but were the 4 team assists because there wasn’t ball movement or were we that bad at shooting?
We definitely WERE that bad at shooting. According to @hornets twitter….
“Bad stat… Hornets are 1 for their last 20 from the field. We’re taking good shots, they’re just not dropping.”
Seriously, people have to admit that Green does not do enough to be our 6th man. Inconsistent as f**k. Plays solid D and scores now and then. Everyone rips Marcus for not setting up teammates. Does Green set up teammates? nope. What else does he do?
There seemed to be no sense of urgency at all during the whole game. Pretty frustrating. I fear that borderline Hornets fans read the box score from this game and don’t get excited about watching the team.
I feel the same way.
Yep, and as a result, who will want to buy tickets?
Perhaps my conspiracy theory is right then and maybe that’s what they’re trying to do. Hahaha! ?????
Mama Mia!! Ouch! Good Grief!
One Hornet in double figures? 4 assists to Philly’s 24 assists?
All is not lost. Monty needs to admit that he can make mistakes, even larger ones. He’s a rookie coach. No one will fault him for messing up. Make them now before it’s too late.
I wonder how just many ass kickings this team needs to suffer at the hands of our offense before Monty actually does something about it.
At least we got da Saints!
Man, that’s not what I want to hear right now.
hahaha me neither
Mbenga with another horrible game. He may be a great person off-the-court, but he needs to be our 3rd string. Play Gray. And Willie Green? Dear God. Play Marcus Buckets Thornton.
That is all.
Mbenga took two jump shots (5 shots total) and got 15 minutes today.
no further comment.
We are 3-9 since trading Peja and Bayless…
Seriously. If a team needs good shots just to drop, there are worse 6’10” shooters out there.
or 3-9 since acquiring Jack. It’s not unreasonable to think that someone’s attitude is having a negative impact on the team. Whether it’s Jack or someone else, this team has been polar opposites in the “caring” department since that trade.
A friend of mine brings this up every time we lose a game but I just can’t fathom that dumping two non-contributors was a bad idea. I could always be wrong, but I’m not sure I’m ready to admit it. I think what’s more likely is that teams have just figured out the Hornets, exposing our weaknesses etc., a little better and they need to work on changing things up a little.
After a game like this the NBA may recline their offer to buy the Hornets……Argh, this game was all around ridiculous.
I thought the Hornets were going to lose by 50 points and I didn’t even think they would reach 50 points.
Oy is all I have to say. This is our second game this season where you just shake your head, say wow, and try to forget it ever happened. We shouldn’t be having games like this.
One positive thing — CP3 realized we were in deep sh*t, so he just took over and started scoring.
I count at least 3. This one, and the 2nd and 3rd SA game.
Now if only he’d do this a little more in the close games…
now every1 sees dat cp3 can score at freakin will!! 25 pts in 3 quarters. he just needs to do dat more often wen we are goin thru scorin droughts
Which player was on the banner the last time the Hornets won? Put that banner up for tomorrow’s game. LOL!! Maybe it’ll help. I’m reaching out for anything right now! LOL!
wow…another bad game.
regardless what happened, i think the quick start for the hornets at the beginning of the season raised the expectations too high. Remember all the predictions of us being in the bottom of the playoff teams before teh season started?
Right now we are 14-9 which is 6th best in the west. I think this record is better than what most people thought we would be. Its still too early and there’s a lot of basketball to still be played.
We are basically stuck with 2 woeful offensive players in Okafor & Ariza – neither can shoot from outside, finish near the basket with any consistency, nor make free throws, and, alas, given our bench, neither is easily replaced in the starting line-up. That puts huge pressure on Belinelli, who nominally is in the game as the shooting (read SCORING) guard. My recommendation would be to bench him, giving the starter minutes to Green and using Marcus, our single best offensive player, as a true sixth man, with the minutes of a Jamal Crawford/Jason Terry. Using Gray as the back-up center might also help avoid these offensive draughts. It’s one thing to insist in starting your best defensive team; it’s another thing to base all 240 minutes of playing time solely on D.
LOL! I saw your username and thought you were talking about the Hornets! LMAO. Because that’s definitely what they displayed today.
What about some smallball with Marco at the three, Marcus at the two, and Ariza as the 6th man. If Marcus is cold or Marco is getting schooled, Green and Ariza are nice backups.
Repeat: solely on D. hmmm, maybe that’s why we can’t score!!!
agreed.
15 minutes for Marcus Thornton. Not bad. Too bad he didn’t play in the 2nd half until the last 6 minutes when Monty knew we’d lose for sure. He ended with 15 minutes of playing time. Initially had 8 points in 12 minutes, but then Mbenga decided to take two FT line jump shots. Apparently Monty wanted to run offense through Mbenga.
MT5 final stat line= 8 pts on 3-8 FG, 3 rebs, 0 ast, 0 turnovers, 1 foul in 15 mins. No, its not brilliant, but here’s what his backcourt “superiors” managed to do:
Belinelli= 6 pts on 3-9 FG, 1 reb, 0 ast, 1 stl, 0 TO in 24 minutes
Jack=8 pts on 3-8 FG, 2 rebs, 0 ast, 0 stl, 1 TO, 3 fouls in 25 minutes
Green=0 pts on 0-7 FG, 3 rebs, 0 ast, 0 stl, 1 TO, in 26 minutes
Belli/Jack/Green combined: 14 pts on 6-24 FGs, 6 rebs, 0 ast, 1 stl, 2 TOs IN 75 TOTAL MINUTES.
Inexcusable. Pathetic. 75 total minutes. Seriously, if anyone wants to rip Marcus, go shove it. Sure, every player had a bad game. But we lost to a scrub team out east in a BLOWOUT. Great, we held the opponent to 88 points! Why does that matter when we shoot 30% as a team for 70 total points?
It’s highly unlikely we’ll see Marcus tomorrow against Miami. But if Monty doesn’t adjust his offense, we are lottery bound at season’s end. MT better start getting some minutes. This is pathetic. Do the Hornets even want to play? Sell tickets? Win?
Funny thing is, what has Belinelli done compared to Marcus to earn such loyalty from people? I don’t get it. It’s as if people have to argue the counterpoint just for the pure s*its and giggles of arguing the counterpoint.
Mr Bees: Your fundamental lack of basketball knowledge is astounding. Marcus Thornton does not have basketball smarts. Period. He is anxiety without direction or purpose on both ends of the court (except, of course, to get himself open looks on offense, regardless of the situation). Monty figured him out and that’s been a big part of the Hornets’ franchise-best start of the season.
I forgot that you were Mr. Basketball. Really? I would argue the fact that you think Belinelli is a legitimate starting SG in the league, much less, the best man-to-man defender in the league, makes you fundamentally insane.
Honestly tho. I may be a Marcus fan, but people have defended Belli with unprecented vigor since day one. They all say he’s the far better player because his D is better, mostly because he never leaves his man open.
But defense goes beyond just guarding your man. He doesn’t get steals, blocks, or force turnovers. Marco is a par SG. He’s not bad, but he’s not worthy of all the praise either. Even in his horrible shooting slump, people are still defending him as a vital player.
@ James: your lack of establishing real arguments is astounding. Whenever someone defends Marcus, all you ever do is insult that person’s intelligence immediately. Like mine. It’s childish and absurd. Then you say that Marco is immune to any blame. You are insanely narrow-sighted.
“Monty figured him out and that’s been a big part of the Hornets’ franchise-best start of the season.”
What is our record now, James? That 8-0 start is long gone. Our same rotations that went 11-1 have gone 3-8 since. What do you have to say about that? Maybe 8-0 was the fluke.
@James. Attacking the rim, getting to the line, running on the break, having no qualms about taking big shots, never turning the ball over… Marcus may not be an all-star, but he brings valuable assets to the floor.
Denver and San Antonio in that franchise best start wouldn’t have been won if not for him, just saying
Looks like I hit a nerve! Good.
Marcus barely knows where he is on the floor at both ends. Marco balances the floor by constantly reading Chris and the overall structure and flow of the offense and by reading the opponents’ offense, which is how he is able to shut his man out from even receiving a pass or closing out on distance shooters.
Watch the games. And fellas, stop making stuff up about what I say. Marco is not immune to criticism, of course not. His shooting slump is cause for concern. I’d like to see him rebound more.
But Marcus Thornton hoists up eight shots quickly, many of them bad shots, misses most of them, without running the offense, and then spins around completely confused on defense and you want more of that?
Forgive me if you disagree, but I have seen a shitload of people wanting marco’s head on a platter.
I love marcus, and am wearing my MT5 jersey as I write this. Marco should keep the starting job I believe, hes no brilliant but he is very solid, good basketball IQ and a better SG than we have had in years. Marco rarely throws up marcus type prayers, can create for other players and takes only open shots pretty much. The guy also hustles alot on the defensive end and stays with his player better than almost anyone on the team except maybe an angry cp or a committed trevor (when we see him every 4th game)
Marcus looks lost on both offense at times and especially defense. But what do we need off the bench POINTS, Marcus can give us points and I do believe should be our 6th man. I appreciate Willies effort but Marco is a better starter than him and whilst he is still the starter we need instant offense out of our reserve guards
“Apparently Monty wanted to run offense through Mbenga.”
Omg! Are you serious? That makes me want to pull my hair out. I didn’t see the game but was he really trying to do that? Man even an AAU coach should know not to do that. LOL.
your luck you didnt watch the game i wanted to slit my wrists on an early sunday morning, very frustrating
@MaxJD_Nola2NYC-Just listening to it on the radio made me want to do the same thing. LOL! So I know if I would’ve watched it I may have run outside in front of a moving car. LOL.
I was being semi-sarcastic about running offense thru Mbenga. But he took FIVE shots, including two jumpers. And got 15 minutes. This team is going nowhere with Green as the 6th man and Mbenga getting more MPG than fucking Marcus.
This is another game when the shooting has been off and if West is defended out the game there is no other option inside.
We can look at this game in one of two ways:
1) it was an early game and our guys mistakenly thought they could easily win this morning against a very active Sixers team.
2) Something is seriously wrong psychologically with our team, guys are not use to winning and look at their winning record and take the millions they make for granted. As a professional basketball player, as an individual they have each failed miserably in their own ways. Here is my take on the losing streak as i would call it after our winning start.
Ariza- Since our winning streak finished ariza has missed foul shots consistently and second guesses his wide open three point looks, Does anyone remember that game winning 3 pointer with a few seconds left earlier this season? Where did THAT trevor go? IMO he seems like a shell of his old self.
Okafor – Since our winning streak finished okafor has missed foul shots which isn’t too unusual, and chickens out when taking the ball to the hole. Which is also not unusual. What i don’t understand is if he is wide open!?!!@#$ why in the world does he look dumbfounded and allow for a defender to get to him and contest his tear drop semi- pussy lay in. Dunk the ball already! Stop being a punk! And also learn how to set a pick, and stop getting called for offensive fouls on these high pick and rolls.
Bellineli- Since our winning streak finished bellineli has missed foul shots, which is odd for him. He consistently hesitates on his 3 Point shot, BTW isnt that why we brought him here? He still drives in with no problem, but if he misses his free throws he is rendered useless on offense. His defense is still ok.. but not great.
DWest and CP3 have played consistently except for dwest’s performance today.
I think Bellineli, Okafor and Ariza are huge to our success. Can someone pull up their stats during our winning streak compared to now, i assure you my opinion on this is valid.
oh no i just realized we have the heat tomorrow! Monty better think hard tonight
“semi-pussy layups”
Semi? I’d say being all alone under the basket and then letting Jodie Meeks (!) come over and reject you at the rim (although he did get the foul) qualifies as 100% vaginal.
Plus Bayless is playing awesome for raptors. I really think that Monty has been too focused on D and has destroyed any attacking qualities these players have.
agreed
Bayless should’ve played that way for the Hornets. How long were we gonna have to wait? Perhaps he fits better there. We saw that guy. He wasn’t doing jack squat for the Hornets. Heaven forbids Julian Wright ever decide to have a decent game for the Raptors. We’ll lose our minds I guess? LOL. Monty had a history with both Jack and Bayless so maybe he thought Jack would be a better fit.
But this is what I am saying. When good players get into Monty’s system they seem to lose any attacking qualities.
@rm-is he trying to make the Hornets a jump shooting team?
I don’t know, if so, when a shooting day happens like today then it is a big risk. No option inside when D West is off.
The too much committment to defense analysis actually makes me feel a little better. In the long term Monty installing a team defense will pay off, and NBA players can get an offense going more easily once they’re comfortable and have chemistry. Especially with Paul at the helm.
How much are we willing to bet that Okafor won’t have the same game against the Heat that he did on 11/5?
Okafor needs help and there isn’t a backup 5 on the roster. MBenga is 3rd string, Gray is 3rd string, Smith is not a 5 plus Andersen not a 5 and sorry to say Pops is also looking 3rd string. There is no true back up 5 on the roster
Do you think Demps will use that $9 mill on a big?
I am no expert on the commercials but simply in terms of team balance I would. There are shooters that can get hot but if West is out the game there is no option inside.
Your statement about Gray not being a 3rd string center is stunning.
I would ask politely this be backed up by some kind of statistic.
In fact, it is my position he is a solid 3rd, possibly 2nd IF needed to force some inside size and power.
Gray has had limited time with any starters and when he has played, he occasionally was very good.
I said that he IS a 3rd string.
I am sorry, you did say 3rd.
Now for that point…IF MBenga is a 3rd string center, Gray is 2nd. The skill sets brought by both is not even close.
Please…MBenga can block shots.
That is it.
He can’t stop using moving pics.
He can’t shoot freethrows..or even shoot at all.
He can’t block out, which is incredible considering his size.
He can’t pass…my main issue with him.
Not being a passer, to me, destroys the entire purpose of an inside-out opption.
WAIT….what are you saying…….that Jack has actually performed better than Bayless since the trade. Are you delusional????????? Go look at the numbers for November on Jack and Bayless, you might be better informed. Bayless is out playing Jack by quite a margin on a lower salary. To take it even further, Bayless has been out playing Jack by quite a margin during both players time here as a Hornet.
So there’s no arguing that the Jack trade waw STUPID!!!!?????
It’s alright, it’s quite the norm for NBA GMs to make these stupid trades these days.
@longshot If that is aimed at me.. then no way have I said that. For me anyone coming in to the Hornets currently are having problems fitting. Bayless has played much better since leaving plus Jack played better away from Hornets.
@ Queen, i’m betting alot.
Demps is “aggressively” shopping that 9.2 mil trade exception we got from the Peja trade. Hopefully he gets what we obviously need. Mbenga should never play. Nothing more than a couple garbage minutes at best. If he doesn’t get the backup C, then he better get someone who can step up and be a f***ing man and make something happen!
Monty, it’s time.
Time to suck it up. I know you’ve gotta soft spot for defense, but it’s time to own up. Our offense is horrid beyond David West and CP3 when he takes off the leash 2 months earlier than he wants to. What do we stand to lose by giving Thornton and Q-Pon way more minutes? Cookies would be great off the bench and Ariza’s great D gets overshadowed by his Julian Wright like offense.
Do the right thing. Let Thornton play.
Is Monty reading this? Is anyone that can get the message to him reading this? I know he’s the coach and is supposed to know more than us but it’s kind of not looking that way right now. Can anyone get this message to the coaching staff at least? So maybe they can get it to Monty. Help.
Could it be that it’s a rebuilding year, and all the diciplined half-court offense, and team defence if building toward a playoff run in 2012? I know how sucky that is with the threat of a move, but from a basketball perspective, isn’t rebuilding what we expected before the season started?
Yeah, I want to see Monty’s reaction. Does he get pissed from this? Or is going to be the same “We need to play defense, make our free throws, etc….” Can he recognize a changing tide and make a counter move?
Demps and Monty had said before trading Peja that they can get him to play great team D. If Peja of all people can play D, so can Marcus and Q-Pon. My frustration with Monty’s grudge is beyond words.
Btw, does anyone else wish we could see more of Marcus and Q-Pon playing together? Collison and Marcus built alot of chemistry. Tag team 2.0
Now you can see why GSW and Toronto didn’t like Belli. The guy is so inconsistent and it’s been nearly all bad for the past 2 weeks. I’m tired of watching him. We need a legit 2, he clearly isn’t it.
Thornton has to play more.
Bayless was incredible last night. That whole thing drives me crazy.
What I would like to know is why couldn’t Bayless be incredible for the Hornets? Will he be incredible next game? Was he increbible in the game before his incredible game last night? Like I said, we saw the guy wasn’t giving the Hornets anything so how long should we have waited for him to contribute?
Yeah, Belinelli is WAYYYY to inconsistent. I’ve been saying this for a while. If he gives you 22 one night it’s almost a sure thing you won’t get anything the next game. We can’t have that. Especially not from a guy you have as a starter.
Isn’t Bayless playing around 30-35mins per game up there in TO? If so, his numbers and play should improve. As for Belinelli, sit him on the bench and let him fight for the starting line up again. And hopefully Marcus can live up to his tremendous hype.
I really think it’s because he has a much different role than he did with us. Bayless is arguably a starting-quality PG for many teams. He thinks so too. With us, that obviously wasn’t his role. Think about DCollison. He was mediocre as a backup, and a stud when he got starter’s minutes. Both of those guys are just like that, i guess.
Ariza was comfortable on the Lakers because he wasn’t pressured. With Houston, that role was flipped upside down. The same is starting to happen with him now. I really believe it’s that same idea. Which is why I was never thrilled about acquiring Jack. But let’s hope he can figure it out.
From postgame recap…
“I don’t even catch myself looking at the score,” Paul said. “When you’re out there playing, it’s about the next possession. How can we get a stop and how can we score. We weren’t making shots. We kept settling for outside jump shots instead of attacking the basket. It’s been like that for a while.”
http://www.nba.com/games/20101212/NOHPHI/gameinfo.html?ls=gt2hp0021000350#nbaGIboxscore
Hey CP, try looking up at the score sometimes. I know you do though. And yes, you guys needs to stop settling for jump shots when they aren’t falling and should attack the basket. How many jump shots must be missed before it’s decided to take it to the rim? I guess they keep thinking they will eventually fall but more oftentimes than not, they won’t.
Not sure what makes Gray a “3rd stringer.” I seem to recall his defense on Howard key to our comeback against the Magic last year. Do I expect that from him every game? No. But I do expect he is a quality back-up center. Why Monty doesn’t think he can do the nothing that Mbenga/Pops offer is beyond me.
Agree on the MBenga front but what I have seen, even this year from both Gray and Pops, it would still be Pops as he is alot more athletic and plays bigger than his 6ft 9
1/3/11 the Hornets better look for payback. That’s all I know.
So let the voice of reason come in… all though lots of you are making good points (not james though)
Obviously something needs to change going 3-9 in your past 12 games playing a much easier schedule than we did in our first 11 is very telling. We got pumped up for the early start to the new regime and now with the fire gone and us in a big time slump the team doesnt have the IT factor going anymore.
There has to be a change made to the line-up. You cant get 20 from belly one game and an average of 5 ppg in the games surrounding that. Streaky playing is for bench players not starters. Ariza needs to stop shooting plain and simple. Spot up for 3 and play solid defense thats what we need you for. Chris for the lvoe of god take initiative. You and d west need to take control of the offense and win us games, ur a superstar thats what superstars do. Willie and Jack have not been consistent. Willie plays nice d but look at this game… really 23 points in the first half. Marcus got 23 in a quarter by himself. PLAY MARCUS we need a spark and he is the guy who can do that.
Also, a comment on Demps. Why make a change when our team is 11-1. I understand jack is a better player and a friend of chris but really why mess with an 11-1 team. Stupid.
IM SORRY BUT WE SUCK. ARIZA SHOULD NOT BE STARTING. CHRIS PAUL IS NOT PLAYING LIKE CHRIS PAUL. BELLI IS INCONSISTENT. OKAFOR IS INEFFICIENT AND TOO SMALL! MARCUS THORTON IS NOT THE SAVIOR THAT YOU ALL THINK HE IS. I DONT KNOW WHAT MONTY HAS CHANGED BUT IT IS NOT WORKING….sorry for talking in all caps but we are losing toooooo often nowadays. lets change it up. get some scorers on the team. Do SOMETHING MONTY AND DEMPS
I agree. I just want to see Marcus given a bigger sample size. Let him start for a few games, come off the bench for 25 mins. If that doesn’t work, then I give up. Trade him and a bunch of guys for someone who can step up and be a f***ing man
Damn what’s wrong with CP, in fact what’s wrong with this team all of a sudden. Like i said before, trading for Jack may have been the wrong move. I don’t know why thist team traded for Jack when Bayless was playing well, now look at Jack – Bayless comparisons since the trade and tell me it wasn’t a mistake to make that stupid a*s trade. Demps basically wasted a good asset in Peja’s expiring for WHAT!!!!!????? Jack hasn’t done “Jack SH*T” pun intended, since he’s been here, what a garbage player he is. And what the hell is wrong with Ariza he SUCKS. I thought him playing next to the best pg in the league would make him better, or at least improve his efficiency……….NOT EVEN CLOSE. His PER has dropped, fg% dropped, he’s a BUM and i agree with the posters here, that he should be MOVED TO THE BENCH.
I wanna see an article detailing what this team is doing differently since their 8-9-0 start to the season.
Seriously, the Jack + scrubs for Peja’s expiring(high value), Bayless was a STUPID TRADE. We were, what can’t remember 11-2 …….11-1 then all of a suden we started losing after the trade. Look at Bayless what he’s doing in Toronto now and he’s on half the salary Jack is. Now tell me that’s not DUMB.
The hottest sixers player at the moment, meeks was just shut down by beli:
meeks’ last 3 games vs boston, cleveland, charlotte: 61pts, 21/38 fg, 15/23 3pt.
today: 8 pts, 2/9 fg, 0/3 3pt.
This is a good defense, not a top defender? i’m sure of it, but he’s an pretty good one. Beli sucked at shooting? sure, but everybody else except cp3 sucked hard today. The incredible mt, in garbage time, against the second unit of the sixers finished with 3/8. I just can’t believe marco is getting this anger by the fans, just because he earned his starting position. I really think that marcus and marco can coexist, but at the moment the one who needs to work hard to gain the starting position or even more minutes from the bench, is marcus. he needs to work on his defense, on his basketball IQ, and on the things monty don’t see in him. I don’t believe that, even a rookie coach, can’t see what everybody else sees, I think he knows why mt is on the bench, even if the mt fans (i’m one of them) does not know.
anyway I prefer a less spectacular player on a winning team then a more spactacular one on a losing team (bayless in toronto anyone? that team is a messy offensive team with no playoff expectations…. even sonny weems, a d-league player, getting his cheers).
I’m right there with you. Marco is a starting level defender of NBA shooting guards. Marcus is not. And behind Marco on the depth chart are two established veteran combo guards. I loved watching Marcus light it up last year, but the team is still on a committment to defense honeymoon, and for now at least, there’s a combo guard logjam on the bench. Marcus Banks anyone?
“sure, but everybody else except cp3 sucked hard today.”
From what I hear, CP3 sucked today too.
I meant shooting…. 8/12 isnt sucking 😀
Sorry, but aside from occasionally shutting down a talented, but unpolished offensive player, Belinelli is below average at best at everything else. Everyone talks about his scoring and defense. What about his rebounding? What about his ability to create or get others involved? 2 rebounds and 1 assist out of your starting SG is NOT GETTING IT DONE. Get the f*** over it. You want to make as many excuses as humanly possible for him, just like James Online. You will take whatever small sample size you can to justify your man crush on him while neglecting to mention any negatives.
I don’t think the stats are the only thing to watch to evaluate a player. In a CPCentric team, the assist stat is pretty difficult to get, every ball is going tru the last passage from CP3. I don’t see this super effective passing by MT, well I almost didn’t see him pass a ball, ever. Yes, he’s more effective at rebounding, he’s atletic and playing with a good intensity, but trying to get a rebound, for example on offense means less effective (or ineffective) transition defense. MT is a good player, a slasher who can bring to the team’s offense something unpredictable, but he’s not focused, he’s pretty often absolutely confused on what are his duties, he gets the ball and shoot it, nothing else. It’s effective? sometimes. You can win consistently with him on the floor on a defensive minded team? I don’t know, but I think the answer is no… If we need to replace belinelli, we need someone else, or change completely the philosophy of the team.
I will say this. Of all the pro-Belinelli support, at least you leave the door open for Marcus. You at least understand where everyone is coming from. We just want to see! Maybe it doesn’t work out. But, come on, most of us have seen enough from the kid to know it’s possible he could be the difference maker we need.
There you go. Smart analysis.
The Philly TV announcers said today that the reason the Hornets like Marco Belinelli so much is the intangibles, the smarts, the complementary skills. Hornets think he is “a very good player.” And of course he remains a legitimate three point threat–the only one on the team outside of Chris.
If you’ve followed Marco in his career, you learn one thing: he is not the “shoot-em up score 30 every night” player he looked like when he first came to the States. He integrates his game into the team offense and does what it takes to help his team win. That’s why he was by far the top +/- over the entire season for the Raptors last year, and why he and Chris were way up there together at the beginning of this season.
Like many of you, I’ve been frustrated with Marco’s poor shooting, especially at the beginning of games lately. But his floor game overall has been very good–excellent defense, few turnovers, good playmaking.
The Hornets have serious problems: Okafor can’t compete down low effectively. Trevor is counted on for too much scoring, and he’s never been much of an offensive player. The Chris-David tagteam routine is too easy too predictable. Jarrett Jack has yet to gain his footing. Pondexter (who I like a lot) makes rookie mistakes. Mbenga, finally getting a chance to play in the NBA, shows nothing but dumbness.
Overall Willie Green has been effective off the bench. Jason Smith has too.
Somehow the system has broken down from where we were at the beginning of the year. The fast start demonstrated the potential. The recent skid, mainly against good teams, brought us back to reality.
Tomorrow is unlikely to turn things around, but let’s see how things over the next month or so. Monty and Chris have to orchestrate well and the players will have to perform up to their abilities.
That includes Marco.
My “smart analysis” comment was directed at f.g. di bene.
[…] For an interesting look at the Sixers W check out the recap from our man Michael McNamara at hornets247.com. […]
So Chris Paul showed up and the rest of the team was garbage, wasn’t this what everyone predicted at the begging of the season?
One field goal in the second quarter is unbelievable, there is no way an NBA team should be doing that.
Hats off to Philadelphia though, they are starting to buy into the new system, hung with Boston on Thursday and have won 5 of their last 7 games.
Jerryd Bayless just wasn’t a fit for New Orleans. He is a talented player but needed to start, not going to happen with Chris Paul and the Raptors will have him starting by the end of the season.
Jarrett Jack is an ok player at best, the move was more to try and appease Paul.
Why? Because he’s so called CP’s friend? What about Jack’s history with Monty? I think Monty knows the games of both Bayless and Jack better than all of us. I don’t think Chris Paul puts friendship above winning. If he felt a ‘friend’ would hold the Hornets back do you think he’d be for that?
If they really want to make a move to appease Chris Paul with one of his ‘friends’, do you really think Jack would be the one CP would ask for? LMAO. If that’s the case they could’ve just held on to Pargo, whether he was still rehabbing or not. For all we know, Monty could’ve told Jack he’d do his best to get him out of his situation in Toronto.
Chris Paul is the only player in double digits today and he’s still wrong. LMAO. The ONLY Hornet in double digits. He scored. No, he didn’t take 30 shots but he scored. How is it that one player on an entire team ends up with double digits? Now when are other players going to be held accountable?
http://blogs.thescore.com/tbj/2010/11/22/jarrett-jack-monty-williams-have-a-history/#more-6556
Monty has even more history with Jack than CP3 does but because the media continues to feed us by bring up that CP3 and Jack are friends, we feel this is the sole reason the Hornets went after Jack. I don’t think it is.
This team has taken a disturbing turn. They’d better show up for this Miami game tomorrow.
I’m feeling a discussion on the trade actually affecting us or not, because you cannot put all blame on it. You can’t compare Bayless in Toronto to him over here, plain and simple. It is two different roles, and he only gave us a glimpse of what he is doing once…. against the Clippers. Personally I miss Peja. He can sort of do what everyone says Marcus can do, and that is to be a scoring spark. Jack isn’t that player from what I’ve seen while MT and peja are.
Maybe they need to mess with the lineups, starters need to be consistent. Make Marco earn it back. I don’t know though…. hopefully we enjoy a good game versus those three Miami guys.
Also I would change the lineups despite the defense because to beat someone with 70 points the opponent needs to score in the sixties, not too common eh?
CP3 is not the problem. He’s not what he once was, but he’s still an awesome point guard. He is feeding the shooters and big men in position to score, but they cannot hit a shot.
The problem on offense is lack of ability for anybody to finish at the rim. Every player on the team has missed at least one dunk or layup in the past 5 games. Most of our big men lose half of their post-ups before they even shoot. Nobody respects our ability to drive to the rim, or even finish on the fast break.
The problem on defense is our weak presence inside. We foul like little girls, allowing multiple 3-point plays on layups and dunks each game. We haven’t taken a charge in the paint in a while. We don’t make the other team pay for their trips into the paint. Against OKC I saw Dwest totally ignore a driving layup, without even turning around to play defense. Who knows why, but we went from playing stout defense to playing Bower defense.
Sorry, but Marcus has shown nothing this year. If he had a couple of games where he made 50% of his shots, then maybe the many complaints would be warranted. Unfortunately he’s been inefficient and ineffective on both ends. Yeah, Belly has had some bad games too, but nothing Marcus has done justifies a starting role.
I don’t understand the Mbenga hate, but I do wish Aaron Gray would get a few games to show his stuff. Sit Anderson down until he gets a clue…..
Everyone like’s to point to Marcus’ play this year. Give me a break. Name one other player on the roster that has to look over his shoulder every single damn time he takes a step anywhere on the floor. No one else except Aaron Gray is expected to be world beaters or they don’t play for the next 10 games. In a game of split second reactions, you can’t break the mental psyche of a young player and then expect him to play like Kobe Bryant for 5-10 minutes a game. It’s utterly retarded.
Marcus hasn’t gotten a lot of chances to show he should be out there. He did in the beginning versus Denver and SA, but not too much after. I agree that he hasn’t shown a lot in the short spurts he’s been given but we’re already in a bad stretch, is it not worth experimenting with?
I’m not getting in to the Thornton part of your post since that’s been so thoroughly beaten into the ground (I will say I disagree somewhat with you, though), but the first couple of paragraphs I’ve been screaming (at myself/the wall) for the last month almost.
I’ve never seen a basketball team be SO terrible at finishing around the basket. I’m talking absolutely abysmal. Okafor’s futility at the rim is obviously the most astounding, but Ariza and Bellineli are also both pathetic at finishing off the drive (actually it’s about 50/50 whether they can even get a shot off)
That’s 60% percent of your starting lineup that strikes exactly NO fear into the opposing team, so on the rare occasion when Chris Paul tries to get to the rim, the other team can run as many bodies at him as they please. What’s the worst that can happen? He dumps it off to Okafor? HA. Jodie Meeks got that shit.
Jarett Jack shows flashes of being able to get to the basket effectively, but not enough. Besides that, he has to run the offense. Green? Meh. Jason Smith? LMFAO. Yeah. Mbenga? Catching the ball is kind of a prerequisite. Thornton? So is getting on the floor.
Pondexter would seem to have some ability in him but even he is still a big fat “TBD”.
Frustrating team to watch right now.
Oh, and to completely digress from the point, EVERY SINGLE BIT of that hustle and effort on the defensive end from David West that we all saw and were so impressed by the first 10/11 games is completely gone now. Apathy reigns again.
you cant judge marcus on his play this year. its too tough to go play 10 min one game then sit for 3 its the coaches fault more than it is marcus for his inconsistent play
“The problem on offense is lack of ability for anybody to finish at the rim. Every player on the team has missed at least one dunk or layup in the past 5 games..”
What in the world happened to us being a younger more athletic team? Speaking of dunking, and finishing at the rim, it wasn’t that long ago when Trevor was doing this…
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r6oqCCbtNuQ&feature=fvst
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=49imqsBCEtY
Where is that Trevor? I figured at best he’d be a younger, more athletic Posey. A defensive player that will give you a little bit of offense sometimes. One that can knock down an open 3 ball when in the position to do so. Other than a fastbreak dunk or open 3 ball, Trevor really shouldn’t be involved in a whole lot of our offensive plays.
“We foul like little girls,”
AMEN! LOL!
Blaming the play on Jack-Bayless trade is just an excuse in my opinion. We have a Jerryd Bayless on our team if you want to see him so badly. His name is Marcus Thornton. Still, I gotta believe that if CP3 misses any time, we will be happy as hell we have Jack instead of Bayless running the show. Our starters are getting owned right now. Can’t blame Jack for that. To just assume that Bayless brought such energy to the team that we played out of our minds is silly. Everyone is also forgetting that our team is saving money now this season. It’s very easy to criticize a money saving move, but we can’t even get 14k into the arena most nights so who can blame them?
Okay guys, here’s the problem, so lemme break it down for you.
The hot start was a product of the new system which teams had not yet figured out. Guys were also attacking the rim, playing excellent team defense, and rebounding well. As we all know, teams quickly figured out the offense AND defense and began to exploit their inadequacies and holes. Look at the Spurs game and all those games we started losing. We hit a wall, and Monty was still working on how to figure out how to fix it.
The offense now has turned into some horrible, horrible monster. We had good ball movement for about ONE game in this “slump” (is this really a slump, or was the start of the season a fluke?) and that was against Detroit, the worst team in the NBA. The half court offense is not working on a team with no scorers, but these guys that aren’t scorers aren’t fast enough nor talented enough to run a fast paced team that plays an up-tempo fast-break kind of offense. We have TWO guys with consistent minutes that can put up about 25 a night, other than that everyone else is streaky.
Whoever said earlier that defense should not be the only focus of this team earlier is absolutely right. Except the thing is that there’s no one that can actually play offense. The personnel isn’t exactly there. Isolations set up for Ariza and Okafor make me literally want to gauge my eyes out. Ariza couldn’t hit the broad side of a barn (wow haven’t used that one in awhile) even if he wanted to, and usually his non-fastbreak drive to the basket or inside the arc ends in a turnover off of his knee or a badly missed shot or layup. The guy is a great defender (he can also be a lazy defender too), but he’s not by any means a solid guy to go to for scoring. One-trick pony! If we were to package some deal up to get a legit new scorer in the line-up, Ariza would have to go. I honestly hate him more and more every game. I also hate Okafor very much as well because he’s about the softest player I’ve ever seen at times, also he’s very very bad offensively, and he doesn’t like to dunk, and ugh he’s just frustrating. I also want to apologize if my professionalism is being a bit thrown off, but I think everyone who’s a fan of this team knows the frustration.
Marcus Thornton deserves more time, and perhaps a starting spot for a test drive because he is a proven scorer. He’s an aggressive driver, athletic, can hit from anywhere, an rebounds the ball efficiently. His defense is not BAD as Monty will say (yeah, I’m calling him out), but it’s not a team defense. Marcus is a scrappier defender causing him to force more turnovers. Belinelli is a pretty good defender, but he’s not really much more than a very average starter. It takes a guy an entire GREAT game for him to reach 22 points, Marcus with those minutes could do serious damage with those minutes. I’m not saying he’s our savior by any means, but it would provide some spark if he could at least get some god damn playing time.
For Monty, ignorance is not bliss. Ignoring the fact that Mbenga is about as scrubby of a scrub as you can get in the NBA means that your backup 5 spot has a giant hole in terms of offense, defense, and hell even rebounding. Aaron Gray does not suck Monty, play the guy, FANS (those select people that show up to some of these poorly orchestrated games, myself included) love this guy. He hustles, rebounds, defends, and by god he’s not offensively retarded like our 7 foot sloth. Andersen and Smith are the same person, offensively and defensively limited players who hustle most of the time, but it doesn’t usually help the team out all that much. Those guys are NOT centers, hell Andersen hardly deserves to be on the court. If we don’t get someone to at the very least play defense and rebound at this position, then I can almost guarantee that we will miss the post-season. 6th in the West right now means absolutely nothing if we’ve lost 9 of the last 12.
Willie Green and Jarrett Jack. WTF man. Willie is a good backup 2, there’s not doubt about that, but all he does is score (not much) and play very solid defense. However, he should NOT be the first man off of the bench to soothe an cold Marco because he’s a one man crew on offense and his stupid 20 foot jumper coming from around the screen is usually a wasted possession in which no pass was even made. I can live with him being solely a backup, but he should not ever be a primary scorer on any unit, starting or bench. Jack is very frustrating as well. His role is to distribute the ball to the second unit players, except he doesn’t do that. Instead he takes too many bad jumpshots a game and plays lazily on the defensive end. Then again he doesn’t exactly have much to pass to on the second unit.
This team is out of whack, man. Chemistry is bad, coaching is bad (sorry Monty, I do still love you though, and I have faith you will fix things), and the way this team is assembled is just plain bad. The offense is absolutely broken. The defense statistically is good, but not very good to watch. And a lately passive Chris Paul is upsetting. Personally, I do not think this team can win with the current structure of the roster, much less the system being implemented with the players. I think Dell should start hitting up Denver right now to check in on Melo’s availability. I honestly think a third scorer on the starting unit could help put this team in the right direction.
Opinions gentlemen?
well said! Sometimes I feel sick to my stomach that Mbenga still receives the minutes that he does. My girlfriend always calls him a troll, and that’s pretty much what he is. A big troll with no real basketball talent. At least put Gray in. I am not a Gray fan by any means, or ever was, but he’s more talented than Mbenga. I’m sure DJ is a nice person, and that’s fine. But he has no business being on the court so consistently.
Both guys are 3rd string Centers imo, and as I’ve mentioned before on previous threads, it’s appauling to me how little our management has addressed our GLARING lack of frontcourt depth. We’ve made so many trades and adjustments to our backcourt, time and time again, and yet our frontcourt continues to suffer in depth, as it has for years. Smith is not a 3rd big off the bench. He’d be a decent 4th guy, but by no means a 3rd on any playoff team. Its astounding. There is no consistent threat down low. Okafor is one of the softest, most delicate big men I have ever seen on offense. He’s solid on D, but he can’t be the sole protector of the rim. He’s just not big enough.
With Ariza, you nailed it. I am liking him less and less each game. This team poses NO THREAT when getting to the rim. Ariza cannot drive without turning it over or chucking his own feces at the backboard. When he isn’t on the fast break, his best drives are when he dishes back out to the perimeter–meaning he should never drive in the half court. Although I’ve seen a few nice plays where he drives to the rim and hands it off to a big nearby, that doesn’t happen enough. I’m not even sure Mek or West have a clue what’s happening at that point. I love him defensively, but he isn’t always engaged on that side. I would start liking him again if he just makes better decisions on offense.
Likewise, Belinelli throws up some of the most awkward, awful, off-balanced shots when he drives to the rim. He’s lucky even some of those go in. He’s great on the perimeter, but not much else. He doesn’t rebound enough, assist enough, or force any turnovers on D. Good on-ball defense and covering his man, but doesn’t steal, block, or force any turnovers.
I talk too much about Marcus, but he needs some real opportunity. It’s been more than long enough. Offense is horrid. Atrocious. Miserable. Abysmal. If I could think of any more insulting words to describe it, I’d put it down. Marcus WILL give this team a spark if he ever gets real minutes. That’s a big IF. It doesn’t seem like Monty has any clue that offense is suffering so much. Marcus can score in bunches if only he’d get some meaningful PT. The last 6 minutes of a game when you’re down 20 + isn’t meaningful PT. They need someone who can CREATE some kind of offense, even if it’s just for himself. Why wouldn’t you at least TRY IT?? for god’s sake, it’s like Byron is coaching this team right now.
Lastly, the team has COMPLETELY abandoned their use of athleticism. We’re hardly getting out on the break anymore. Does anyone remember early in the season when we were RUNNING? Me neither. I’m not seeing that one bit. Teams may have figured out our game plan, but by all means you can still RUN upcourt to keep the defense on their heels.
This is just funny now, im not even upset, let me know when the team starts playing with heart again.
I read all of this.
Many people think there is an answer. Some say Marcus, some say Chris taking to the rim.
There is no answer. No single thing is going to fix `what’s wrong’.
This is a team game and the team isn’t playing well.
Trading bench players for other bench players seems like it would affect the bench, but it’s not like our bench as gotten more worse than the starters since the trade.
The more you focus on your pet peeve, the less you are going to learn about the team. If you are ok with that, fine.
Couldn’t agree more. There are a ton of leaks on this ship and no ONE thing can plug them up. Yeah maybe Marcus could turn the tide in 1 or 2 games, maybe Gray provides a spark on a given night, maybe Pops….. well never mind.
Big picture is that this team is flawed in several areas and it is going to take a lot of work and several home run type moves to get us to the elite level we thought we were at when we were 11-1.
This team is much improved over the team last year, probably the team from the season before that, and maybe even the 2007-2008 team. That team was less streaky, and had great success in January that contributed to their win total.
We are upset by the two trends, and the projection of the most recent one. Most fear it because they don’t analyze the cause and it’s just a boogeyman. I don’t understand it fully, but I do know the offensive activity is low. Off-ball stuff is becoming uncommon. We’re doing isolation plays more and more but with less and less off-ball movement, the the isolation turns into a double team or more. The guys are running plays from a small playbook, committing to shooting from spot X before the defense reacts, shooting regardless, but somehow not committing to the shot . . . people have commented on the hesitation. The kickouts against Detroit really helped, but this doesn’t happen that much.
A little heat, a little spice on the offensive side will help.
I can’t stand this talk of urgency or energy when the coaches aren’t providing, as far as I can tell, a game-specific playbook, or at least priorities, or something else to get excited about.
@mm I see you’re not a Pops lover. You are right that his regular season has been poor but out of MBenga and Gray, he is still the only one to show anything in pre season.
I find watching the hornets goes best with a bottle of jack and a six of coke, but in the end of the day we just have to be positive we dominated with roster early in the season so theres no reason we cant continue it, just gotta find our groove. the d is there we just need to step it up on offense, thats all on dwest, belinelli and chris paul. Okafor and ariza have 1 job and thats defense, they arent offense players never have been and shouldnt be judge or relied upon as such.
HEY MONTY, NOTHING IS WORKING RIGHT NOW. MIX IT UP AND TRY PLAYING MARCUS THORNTON FOR AT LEAST 20 MPG FOR JUST 3 GAMES IN A ROW. HIS PERFORMANCE LAST SEASON ALONE SHOULD JUSTIFY THIS LITTLE EXPERIMENT.
WHAT IS REALLY PISSING ME OFF
guys the hornets are a team and their fans should have a similar bond supporting that team. WE ARE THE HORNETS and we are playing OTHER TEAMS.
Why is it MARCO vs MARCUS. I understand we are in tough times on court and off court, but our 2 guard positions production is alright. The more pressing issue is the 3 and the 5. At the 5 meks would be a very handy backup but we need someone with balls to take it inside and make opposing centres their bitch, Like the terrorist in Team America, I too like balls but only on a 5 man in the post.
At the 3, trev shuts down players beautifully every 5 games or so, but hes a horrid shooter, even worse on the dribble who takes it to the rim and seemingly throws up a prayer with what seems to be the wrong hand and seems to get fouled (then I rewind the footage to find that the shot he put up the hit the top of the board from 3 ft was not a foul or a block) he also throws the ball away too often (not even just on inbound passes) and he cant shoot free throws for shit. I almost wish we had gotten battier instead of him now.
Yes at the 2 Id like to see MT get some more time, and he has shown glimpses but he needs to TAKE the starting role. Marco doesnt rebound I know, but hes a 2 guard so does it really matter that much? He does defend, doesnt throw the ball away, can create a bit and is an above average shooter. If Marco was 3 inches taller hed be a sick 3 for us but atm hes fine at the 2.
Calling for marcos head to benefit marcus is irrational atm, and Id love to see Marcus TAKE THE START. but the fact is the argument for Marcus to take over Beli isnt warranted, we are still 16-9 and dont need to take a solid contribute to the sharks in an effort to get some offense.
How about we start running to try get easy buckets??? CP pushing the ball with athletic trev, shooters in marco and dw and a fairly athletic centre in Meka.
But guys, slandering each other about Marco and Marcus is just dumb, there are great points either way for either but none strong enough to put your undying faith in either
peja is still better than ariza and belinelli combined, just because on most nights he had to defend guys like james, anthony, pierce, durnat, jefferson and other superstars at the small forward position, whom no one else is stopping anyways “he cant defend” you gotta be kidding me. most of you don’t know what you’re talking about.
Pops is better than Peja and Posey. It’s easy to say, even with the alliteration. Where’s the proof? Well, I have none. What about you?
Yeah well, Hilton Armstrong is better than Alonzo Mourning and Ty Chandler combined! …I dunno…
wow great comeback guys, so two scrubs are better than a three time all star… do you really want me to talk stats? one healthy season with a mediocre team gave the hornets franchise record for wins. enjoy your roller coaster hornet fans. you’re clearly in denial.
That was sarcasm. Sorry to hurt your brain on that.
I hope to be worthy of you dispensing your genious at some point.