Im at work so i havent been able to read every comment so this may already be said. In games where the opposing SG is a good scoring option, usually trevor switched with Belli and Belli guarded the SF. There are lots of scoring 2 guards, and usually those are a blackhole for the offense ( they shoot everything that comes to them, ala Monta Ellis, JR, etc) so the SF Belli is guarding is not getting the ball consistently and can never get on fire, so i guess that would be a good explanation of why Belli posted a better defense on SF than SG.
Hornets Unlikely to Extend Qualifying Offers to Belinelli or Smith
With time running out for the Hornets to extend qualifying offers to Marco Belinelli or Jason Smith, it’s looking more and more likely that both will enter free agency unrestricted. The Hornets hold ï»¿a 3.1 million dollar qualifying offer on Smith, and a 3.4 million dollar offer on Belinelli. The two players both played big roles last year for the team, with Marco averaging 24.5 minutes in 80 games, and Jason contributing 14.3 minutes in 77 games.
The Hornets may be interested in bringing one or both back, but it seems increasingly unlikely that GM Dell Demps will see it in his best interest to extend a qualifying offer to either player. Neither is particularly young or raw, and both recorded PER’s well under 13 last year and during every other year of their respective careers.
Of the two, Belinelli is the more intriguing player despite Smith’s 7-foot frame. At times last year it seemed that the Italian was on the verge of becoming a legitimate starter in this league, so let’s start with him.
Early on it appeared Marco had made major progress on defense in particular, but as the season continued he proved that was more a reflection of the team’s defensive system (which also struggled to maintain it’s early season performance). In stark contrast to 8 months ago, it’s now hard to make the case that Belinelli is an above average defender. Statistically his season on defense was a bit confusing, so let’s see who has been paying attention in the near decade this site has been around.
Best answer wins a free Hornets247 t-shirt!
Synergy Sports says that he allowed 1.04 points per possession to his mark on defense (447th in the league). In isolation he got creamed, giving up 1.17 points per possession (346th), and he repeatedly struggled to challenge his man on spot up jumpers, allowing 1.18 ppp (165th).
82games.com represents his season a little differently. While Marco was in at shooting guard, his opposing counterpart put up a PER of only 13.8. Defending small forwards, which he spent 1/6th of his on-court time doing this year, he gave up a PER of only 9.8.
How could that be? Best answer wins a Hornets247 T-shirt. If there are a few really good ones, then we’re happy to hand them out to more than one person.
Offensively Marco’s bread and butter is and should be the three pointer. He had a career year behind the arc, taking four a game at a stellar 41.4 percent, but it was the ones he didn’t take that hurt him. Frankly, the guy isn’t very good from anywhere else. Where he especially does damage from long range is when he’s spotting up (40.6%) and in transition (49.4%). He took 284 of his 347 three pointers last year in those two situations.
Too many times, though, he passed up seemingly open threes in favor of a pump fake and then an inefficient drive, or jump shot from a step inside the line off the dribble. If he can stick to taking catch and shoot three pointers, and can advance again in regard to making them, then he can be a nice compliment to any team’s offense.
As I’ve said in the past, I think it’s crucial to get Chris Paul a guy who can hit open three pointers in order to maximize his ability to create in the half-court throughout a game. Marco is in a position to be that guy next year. I’d like to see him back to get another crack at it, just not at 3.4 million. Nobody will offer that on the open market.
It would also probably benefit Marco as a player to spend another year in a system just to get some continuity in coaching. The guy has played for three teams in four years already in America alone.
I’ve always thought of Jason Smith as a Darius Songaila/Ryan Bowen hybrid of sorts, which isn’t a good thing for a guy looking to get over 3 million a year. Even if Smith just turned in a decent year on a playoff team, he’s still a jump-shooting big man who has has displayed no three-point range as of yet. He has no real post moves, and struggles to make plays around and above and around the rim both as a scorer, defender, and rebounder.
All in all he’s not really a liability on offense, but he’s not even close to being someone that you have to worry about beating you. Just keep someone near him, and despite his size, he has a hard time getting an effective shot off. After the first five games of last season where he did it twice, he scored ten or more points only three times throughout the rest of the season. Synergy tells a similar story, as Smith managed to record only .83 points per possession (364th in the league). He does set decent picks, and has a pretty good understanding of the offense, but that’s not enough to make up for everything else.
Defensively it’s a similar story. He gave up .93 points per possession (304th in the league), and 82games shows that when he opposed centers they recorded a PER of 14.8. Against power forwards that number was 15.2.
Where Smith makes his mark on a team is through his infectious energy and ability to guard both the 4 and the 5. Often the spark plug for rallies, it was a common occurrence to see Jason sprawled out for a loose ball when other players would have (and sometimes already had) just given up. You can feel the energy that he plays the game with from the stands, and there’s no question that he gets the crowd riled up more often than other players with a similar basketball skill set. There’s a reason teams win more at home than on the road, and guys like Jason Smith have something to do with that.
He will undoubtedly find find himself on an NBA roster next year, but he won’t be making 3.1 million unless someone made an error.
Other guys to think about
- Although I haven’t seen any official announcement, it’s very, very hard to see the Hornets picking up their team option on David Anderson’s final year (2.7 million). Especially considering he has reportedly signed a deal with the Italian team Montepaschi Siena.
- Michael and I thought (and Ryan seemed to agree) that Aaron Gray was a goner in part 2 of our Hornets season review. That remains the case, as he opted out of the last year of his deal with the Hornets. As I said then, “heâ€™s a big man who played big in the postseason and made peanuts this year. While heâ€™s surely a capable backup, someone is going to overpay him to commit moving picks and dumb fouls away from the ball,Â for multiple years. That team really shouldnâ€™t be the Hornets. While he made some good progress this year physically, his work ethic and dedication to conditioning remain a question mark going forward.”
Update- Jimmy Smith from the T-P says that “League sources, however, believe itâ€™s likely the Hornets will exercise their option to retain Belinelliâ€™s rights, and that the decision could come Wednesday.”
If that’s the case, I won’t be shocked. Surprised, but not shocked. 3.4 million isn’t a ton of cash for Marco, but I’m betting he doesn’t get anything better in free agency. If Hornets extend that offer, I would expect to see him back on the team next season.
Retaining Belinelli at 3.4m would bum me out way more than any other thing that has happened in the offseason (D-West opt-out included).
"Offensively Marcoâ€™s bread and butter is and should be the three pointer." Even those long ones... he had the Best Efficiency for Shots Over 30 Feet ;-) http://weaksideawareness.wordpress.com/2011/06/20/long-range-bombers-average-distance-of-shots/
Now, I know you're just having a good time, J, but really... These guys watch more ball than us. Dudes get paid to do it. If we know, they know. Do they care? They have the same issues we do, just with different emphases. They have relocation issues, players they want to keep, financial constraints... They likely care about the same that we do.
I rather have Willie Green than Belinelli but thats me.If you trade Okafor to the Kings with a 2012 2nd round pick for Jason Thompson and Francisco Garcia.Yeah theres alot of loyal Okafor fans on this fourm but the guy is a bum 6'10 center in this leauge you've to be kidding if Monty switch him to Power Forward i can respect that but i would go after Dalentbert 4yrs $24 Million $6 Million a year,Glen Davis 5yrs $25 Million, Aaron Affalo 5yrs $25 Million heres some other current roster,free agent signing and Re-signees.Heres the would be Payroll PG Chris Paul $14,940,153 SG Arron Affalo $5,000,000 SF Trevor Ariza $6,322,320 PF Glen Davis $5,000,000 C Dalembert $6,000,000 Starting 5 frist year payroll $37,262,153 reserves PF Josh McRoberts $2,700,000 SF James Jones $4,000,000 SF Quincy Pondexter $1,073,280 SG Francisico Garcia $5,500,000 PG Jarret Jack $4,600,000 C Jason Thompson $ 2,178,000 PF Leon Powe $650,000 C DJ Mbenga $900,000 SG Delonte West $1,000,000 PG Carlos Arroyo $750,000 Frist year salary payroll for reserves $23,531,280 you add the starting 5 frist years salary payroll of $37,262,153 equals to $60,613,433
Yes, is possible is unreal market for New Orleans without one real president, but my opinion is not not bad team, only 13 players about 70 million. Is possible Demps trade or buy someone players for improving the team? Sorry for my bad english, i'm italian. 01 PG Chris Paul $16,359,805 02 SG Marco Belinelli $3,377,604 03 SF Trevor Ariza $6,790,640 04 PF Emeka Okafor $12,492,500 05 C Tyson Chandler $12,600,000 06 PG Jarrett Jack $5,000,000 07 SG Rasual Butler $285,405 SF Quincy Pondexter $1,153,800 (trade if possible) 08 PF Carl Landry $3,000,000 09 C Ã–mer AÅŸÄ±k $1,857,500 (Bulls under contract) 10 SF Thaddeus Young $3,992,108 (from New Orleans) 11 PG Chris Quinn $867,366 (from New Orleans) 13 SG Arron Afflalo $2,906,053 14 PF Josh Powell $992,680 Geaux Hornets forever!
The thing about Beli is that early in games, he would guard his opposing counterpart. As the game would go on, teams that have gifted scorers at that the SG position would tear him up thus forcing Monty Williams to either move him to guard someone else or bench him. The Lakers are good example for this argument, he would generally start on Kobe but later in games would move to guard Artest and Ariza would switch to Kobe and the reason is that Artest is not as gifted a scorer as Kobe. Another example would be the rockets, he would start on martin and then move to Budinger due to the fact he couldn't keep up with martin. In conclusion, Beli guarded pretty much the worst Backcourt scorer while he was on the court as the game progressed and with his inconsistency on offense and his lackluster defensive abilities, I see no problem in Dell Demps not extending a qualifying offer to him and that's how it should be.
It absolutely DID happen. If you watched the Hornets/Lakers playoff series AT ALL (or the last 2 regular season games against them), you'd know that Belli was guarding Artest for an extended time because hmmmm....Ariza was guarding Kobe obviously. Go back, James, and look at some of the first quarter stats for Artest during the playoffs (or watch the replays preferably). You'll see that while Marco was checking Artest (in the corner), Mr. Ron Ron was the most explosive/efficient Laker during the first quarter. Now foolishly, Phil didn't take note of this extreme mismatch and never threw Artest back in the game long enough afterwards. He just took this for a fluke (Ron won't score this much regularly) and utilized his more familiar lineups. Sorry, but Marco is not the 'dynamic' player you think he is, Mr. Online. I took a quick look at your website....impressive. You should stick to the things you're good at. Basketball clearly isn't for you, pal.
@Joe Gerrity Do you pay for Synergy Sports? I know Draft Express uses them for situational statistics, but I could not find a free Synergy site like 82games or hoopnumbers.com. Please advise.
David Andersen press release from Italy (in English) http://www.euroleague.net/news/i/86271/180/item
Jimmy Smith's piece online this afternoon has league sources saying Marco will be resigned at nearly 4 million. Makes sense. Marco was one of the league's best 3pt. shooters after the All Star break and his defense, contrary to what some think, was generally excellent. When he gets isolated out on a wing, many players will get past him. Check the video. They get past most defenders. Jarret Jack may be the slowest lateral defender in the league. Marcus Thornton wouldn't even try (wonder why Sacto went for Jimmer? Ask Monty). Defense IS a team game founded on commitment. While posters here cried about Marco getting pushed around by Ron Artest in the playoffs, Monty said he kept Marco out there precisely because of the defense he was playing on Artest. Honestly, some posters need to keep their biases and stereotypes in check or amp up their bb iq. Marco played TOUGH against a big, bruising small forward with attitude and held his own. The criticism came from Marco not shooting well in four of the six games. His shooting percentage was down there in Ariza-land. Mike Malone installed the defense. He also worked with Marco personally. They had great chemistry and it was Malone who advocated for Marco all year, largely because of his 100 focus on defense and sweet shooting stroke, esp from deep. (Question for the real fan: who has the best career 3pt. shooting percentage, Ray Allen or Marco Belinelli?) My biggest problem with the way Marco was used this year was the routine first quarter yank no matter how he was doing. I can recall several times when he was lighting it up from three only to be pulled out after six or seven minutes, seemingly because that was the game plan going in. Monty needs to stay with him more. That's fundamental if you want more production from your SG. Marco will play for the Italian national team this summer for the European Championship. His game is growing constantly and his commitment to becoming better is beyond question. The games in Lithuania this summer will help him develop even more. With the Italian team he plays 30 minutes+ every game and the productivity is WAY up. Of course Marco's game should be evaluated critically. Here's what he needs to do: take the ball the rim and initiate contact more. Marco doesn't get to the free throw line enough, though he is a good FT shooter. He has the hops and the strength to get through interior defenders but he fails to go hard to the hoop enough (by the way, to those who say he should just camp at the three point line and shoot, you'll have to take that up with Monty. Monty was telling his guards all year NOT to do that, but to diversity the offense and attack the rim at every possibility. Unless you are bringing in a Kyle Korver or Anthony Morrow, who can do little else, you don't sit your SG outside the entire game. And even if you did, with the Hornets the ball wouldn't find you, especially if David West ever touches it). Go hard, Marco! Marco also needs to board more. One reason he doesn't is because in Monty's defensive scheme, his first responsibility is to get back on defense to prevent break outs going the other way after a Hornets' possession. Marco is a team player. He does what the coach asks him to do, including playing solid defense every minute he's on the court. Watch closely. He is very good at preventing his man from getting involved in the offense...this is what I mean by "prevent" defense, a tactic taught by Malone everywhere he's been. His assist total shoud be better too, but Paul takes a lot of air out that potential. Because Paul demands to control the ball on every possession, and given the role of the shooting guard in Williams' offensive scheme, there is not enough ball movement, options, or creativity--areas in which Marco excels. The Hornets' website has exit reviews of every player this year. Sure the reviews come from the team, but they're worth reading. Williams and Demps were pleased with Marco's development this year, and were very positive about his professionalism. When you're developing a winning team, you need players who buy into what the team is trying to do. Mature guys. Team players. In the case of the Hornets, it's crucial. Hope the Hornets have the good sense to follow through on what Smith is reporting, probably tomorrow. And, NBA/players, c'mon. Don't let your fans down again, especially not Hornets' fans who are struggling just to survive. Go Rocky! Go Hornets!!
Ok. A good deal of trade talk on this this thread. We are free to talk about whatever here, however, we also try to respect what others are talking about. Some trades are flights of fancy, and those are fun, but trades based on false premises ... Don't do that. Above, there is talk that the Hornets have ~$50m to spend. That is not true. We'll have something like $20m under the cap and $10m more. We can maybe get more via trade, but that will all take time be limited by the CBA and the budget. Please, try to teach each other about these things. You guys are smart. Share the smarts. We'll all be better off. I'll start. Try hoopshype.com for salary info. I use that. It's easy to see who has what deal for how long across each team. It shows the basic options, too. What do you guys use? Also, if people don't respond to a trade, don't keep trying to get input. There'll will be a day for when folks will respond. Save your best trades for these days, yeah? Also, try Hornets report. They talk trades tons over there.
First of all, we're not trading Okafor. It's not happening. Period. I know that comment is going to cost me at least 2 thumbs down. Secondly, Thompson is more of a long PF than C. He's not strong enough, he has to fill out first. That might give me a couple thumbs down too, hahaha. As for Belinelli, I know alot of people won't agree, but he could serve a good role on this team. Every team needs a sharp-shooter, so maybe he could fit in to a Deshawn Stevenson type role player and play alongside Chris Paul to maximize his shooting ability. Then, we can bring a signed SG to come in similar to Jason Terry. He's not worth 3 million, but for a reasonable price I think he could serve a good purpose on this team. As for his defense, when he is in at small forward, that usually means that the other teams star at SF is out. Ariza would stay in for as long as he had to to challenge the Durants, the Lebrons, and the Kobe's of the league. Belinelli, like Mason said, was guarding the backup SF. PER measures almost all the aspects of a players performance. It goes beyond points. The reason his numbers against isolation are so pitiful but the opponents PER wasn't great is because he wasn't isolated very much, but when he was, he was horrific. His story is that when players did exploit his weak defense they were successful, but they didn't take advantage of it enough.
I think we should get Troy Murphy. I feel like he can be had at a cheap price, can stretch the floor with the 3pt shot, and rebounds pretty well. I'm not sure about him defensively though. I also wish we would get Greg Oden too. Playing back up minutes might keep him healthy.
We can definitely upgrade from both of these guys. if they wanna come back for real cheap thats fine but neither should be getting large amounts of playing time. Personally i would love to see Nick Young on our team, kid is a beast on offense and has some upside on the defensive end. With a long lockout looming i dont think there is even gonna be a season this year so im not worried about players cause when there is actually a CBA ready im confident Dell and Monty will put our team in a position to win.
We are making the offseason sound like a walk in the park. Just signing whoever we want isnt going to cut it. Last year was one of the greatest free agent classes ever and the hornets didnt captitalize. I think Dell will (and have to be) aggresive in free agency. Reports are surfacing saying carl landry will be coveted just like david west will be. The only way we keep landry is if we overpay him. I do like jeff green because he can play the 3 and the 4. I like JR smith because his skill set is so high. Very high on wilson chandler. Like spencer hawes. I think if we do not get valuable pieces in free agency or resign west or landry, you're going to have to blow it up. Like trading cp3, ariza and okafor. Face a bad year, and get a lottery pick. I dont wnt to do it, but if we trade cp3 at the all star break, we have 2 first round picks. Lets hope it doesnt resort to that. Monty did a great job with little talent, so we have to get greater talent. Really want to see this hornets team do great.
This dude is still talking about how there is going to be $50 million to spend? How do you even arrive at that figure? So baseless.
It's hard to see either of them going anywhere for anything near their qualifying offers if the owners get their way (or close to it) on the hard cap. So unless they get offered significantly more money to play elsewhere, they could both be back. Another year in our system would be good for them and the Hornets. Where can the Hornets get better for the same money or cheaper? Somewhat better players will cost double what they cost, and we don't have enough cap space to spend it on only somewhat better players. Maybe we have enough cap space to bring in one better player.
With the Hornets having $49 Million to spend.This team needs to get rid of Okafor trade him to the Kings for Jason Thompson and Francisco Garcia think about this in the Hornets currently have $49,552,945 if you add Okafor's contract $11,495,000 it would be $61,047,545 minus the salary you going to take from Kings trade $7,678,000 the Hornets will have $53,369,545 to spend.We get Garcia because the Kings have John Salmons who is most likely the starter this season
In free agency and trades.........The PG Spot is fine but we can sign Shannon Brown, SG: sign Wilson Chandler, and LaceDarius Dunn (For Offensive Support) OR Sign Jeff Green SF: it'll be fine unless we want to sign the d-league SF PF: Trade for Brandon Bass from the Magic, Resign Carl Landry C: Sign Samuel Dalembert to backup Emeka Okafor and bring back DJ Mbenga Lineup: PG: CP3, Shannon Brown, Jack SG: Wilson Chandler/JR Smith, LaceDarius Dunn/Jeff Green SF: Ariza, Pondexter, D-league Player/Jeff Green PF: Carl Landry, Brandon Bass C: Emeka Okafor, Samuel Dalembert Any other ideas because thats mine because that would be my plan..
$42,066,057 is how much we have spent now we can do all of those thing i posted up there with no problem with 20M+ to spend
$42,066,057 is how much we have spent now we can do all of those thing i posted up there with no problem with 20M+
Belinelli was just awful. He started off in the beginning and when dead cold after that. He's just a one trick poney. Jason Smith is even worse. Hornets should look for player that can put the ball in the basket.
The dichotomy in Synergy Sports and 82games.com's appraisal of Marco's defense can be explained by the difference between ppg and PER, as well as the Hornets' team defense. Marco allowed his mark to score, which Synergy reflected with the high ppg. But his mark did not do a lot of other things that are captured by PER such as rebound, assist, steal, etc - hence the low PER. This means Marco did a good job of boxing out, and denying penetration for kick-outs and dump-off passes... but by doing so, he played off his man too far and gave up a lot of jumpers which translated directly to points. Marco sagging off his man can also be attributed to a greater sense of team defense and packing the paint, which are concepts courtesy of the new coaching staff. Having strong team defenders like Ariza and Okafor also helped limit the non-point PER elements of his mark when they made a move. However, when put on an island by himself, Marco got torched. The moral of the story? Play the jumper AND the dribble, Marco!
Let's be honest the Hornet's front office did what they thought was best for this team given the financial handcuffs the previous front office put on this team [Queue sarcastic golf clap] Thanks Jeff Bower for completely crippling this franchise. They had to take small chances on non contributing players, and given their situation they made some OKAY moves. I say shed it all and try and start fresh. Please note all the die hards maybe seriously offended by the preceding article/opinion. This is strictly from a business and basketball stand point. Whats the perception of the hornets amongst the average fan? Superstar player with no owner and salary cap problems (AKA Okafor). I think its interesting that West is testing FA. The guy is coming off MAJOR knee surgery and will be 31 entering next year (if they play next season!). He was never an explosive player so this injury doesnt affect him like it would say a Dwight Howard or another player who relies heavily on athletic ability to score the rock. That leaves the team with Paul, Okafor (shaking my head still), Jack, and Ariza as our core under contract players. Don't pick up anyone's option and don't start panicing now front office - you have righted the ship and their is no sense messing this up now. A. Do whatever is possible to Move Okafor and more him NOW! Send him somewhere with a future draft pick, and get whatever you can salvage in return. Send him to the Kings and get jason thompson (athletic big to run pick and roll with paul AKA Crescent City Connection Squared) back who has very high potential but hasnt been given much playing time in Sac Town. He is super athletic, long, and protects the rim and for what its worth is very young. If it doesnt work out next year given playing time oh well his contract expires next season. And your back to square one, but I think it would work out fine. Recap: Ship Okafor Away B. Red Rover Red Rover bring some excitement right over! Al Thorton, JR Smith, Shane Battier, Delonte West, Glen Davis, and Nene are all unrestricted FA that could make an immediate impact with the Hornets and create some BUZZ in the city. Thorton is a dimaond in the ruff who has yet to have proper development. I would include Tyson on this list but lets be honest Cuban will pay tyson what other teams can't. Cuban will take care of Tyson. Recap: Bring in some solid FA's (RESIGN LANDRY!) C. If you build it they will come. West will re-up, Paul will re-up, an owner will buy this team, and the FANS will come. Starts with shedding salary and building a contender. Bigger, Longer, more athletic team with a True Center. Paul/Jack Thorton/JR Smith/Green Ariza West/Landry Nene/Thompson With JR Smith, Jack, Willie Green, Landry possibly off the bench would be a GREAT START and I think all those players would be affordable given our cap space even if the cap shrinks. Maybe try and land a Restricted FA if you cant get your target FA - Thaddeus young, Dragic, Wilson Chandler, Jeff Green
" Neither is particularly young or raw, and both recorded PERâ€™s well under 13 last year and during every other year of their respective careers." Actually they are both fairly young at 24-25. But you are absolutely correct in the fact that they don't show Raw talent and that thier PER's were low, especially for Bellineli, who was a starter for most of the season. Bring back Thornton!!!!!!
I agree with you. But the reality is that Thornton didn't come until Monty Williams is our coach. Monty couldn't see how MT could be useful for the Hornets. And I believe that now isn't that he will appreciate what we already had on hands.
I think what GM's and coaches fail to realize is that this is a product. And when marketing a product, you are suppose to consider what the consumers want. In this case, THE CONSUMERS WANT F'ING THORNTON. And this is a guy with tremendous upside! I like Monty but he has to get his head out his butt, just playing defense doesn't win championships! Look at JJ Barea, he couldn't guard a gnat. But his energy and offense was needed for Dallas to win. Monty needs to learn how to use his players strengths, not just focus on defense.
I can understand the seemingly unlikely disparity between his match-ups at SG vs. SF; since Beli spent most of the season starting at SG, he was defending the opponent's starting SG. During the few times that he was moved to SF, though, he was probably defending the opponent's backup SF, likely a less talented player. Not quite sure yet about the vast statistical difference between synergy vs. 82games though. As for the business side of this post, I agree pretty strongly that the Hornets shouldn't extend qualifying offers to either player, but that the team should try to bring back Beli at a cheaper price.
So Demps is likely to fill 7-10 roster spots from just free agency, with what I would assume to be no more than $20-$25 million once a new CBA is reached? LOL. If Okafor and/or Ariza, plus future picks or whatever else it might take, aren't traded for a top 30 player, this team is so done.