Trade in the Works for Hornets-Raptors

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Published: November 20, 2010

ESPN.com is reporting that a five-player trade between the Raptors and Hornets was almost completed friday night, and still may be in the works.

The players involved are Peja Stojakovic and Jerryd Bayless for Jarrett Jack, Marcus Banks and David Andersen.    My quick take:

I love what this says about Dell Demps.  He made a move to get Bayless, thinking he would provide a solid backup option at the point.  10 games later, Bayless has shown no ability to play that position, and Demps is willing to make a move to get a much superior backup at the point.  That’s unheard of.  GMs are always loathe to admit a mistake.  Demps apparently does not.

And make no mistake, Jarrett Jack is the best player in this trade.  Peja was a season or two ago, but he’s not now.   Bayless is terrible.  No shooting stroke, a mediocre ability to get to the rim, and no respect from the refs to draw fouls.  Marcus Banks is a salary throw in, and David Andersen is essentially Darius Songaila without the toughness (though he can hit on the pick and pop – and we know the Hornets bread and butter is that play, so he may even get some minutes.)

So if you look at the trade overall,  the Hornets are working to trade a part that doesn’t fit and a part that isn’t working, for one of the best backup point guards in the league and some salary fill in, which they can still turn around and move later if they want.

Problems with the Reported Trade:

The trade reported above can’t actually be the one being completed.  First, Bayless cannot be moved as part of a trade bundle.  That’s not a huge problem, since it could actually be two seperate trades with Andersen being moved for for Bayless.

Here’s the actual problem, though.  The rest of the trade: Peja for Banks and Jack?  That trade does not contain enough Raptor salary for it to work according to the trade rules.  The Raptors need to send back another 2.5 million.  There are players for the Raptors that could be included – but it would have to be someone like DeMar DeRozan or Ed Davis, and there is no way I can see the Raptors giving up one of them in this deal too.

Something’s not right.  We’ll see how it develops.

86 Comments

  1. stormsurge

    November 20, 2010 at 11:19 am

    Add in that the rumor is how much cash we’ll throw into the pot and it works even less-well.

  2. Hollis21

    November 20, 2010 at 11:19 am

    Just saw this trade rumor. I’m not a huge fan of moving Peja unless it’s to get a big name. However, I do love Jarret Jack as a backup point guard however, but I also thought there would need to be another Raptor added. Should be interesting to see what develops here.

    • Ryan Schwan

      November 20, 2010 at 11:35 am

      Remember – Mike and I have been hammering this point in. Peja is not likely to bring back a big name by himself – not without other major pieces being included. The market won’t bear it this year.

  3. Edbballin504

    November 20, 2010 at 11:23 am

    Ryan, the Raps got a huge trade exception from the Bosh trade. Do they have to use it ALL at once or can they give a PORTION of that away…equal to the amount needed to make the trade work? For example, if the trade exception is $15 mill, but we only need $6 mill to make our deal work, can they give us $6 mill and going forward now they’d only have $9 mill left?

    • Ryan Schwan

      November 20, 2010 at 11:33 am

      I’m not sure if you can break off a piece and send it out with a trade. I’ll go look into that.

      • Ranae

        November 20, 2010 at 11:51 am

        Delurking for a second to mention that the trade can go through with Peja for Jack, Banks, and Andersen and at least according to ESPN Trade Machine, Bayless for part of the Bosh trade exception. The Raptors would still have a little over 12 mil for the Bosh Trade exception.

    • TopherPrice

      November 20, 2010 at 1:33 pm

      See my comment below for how the trade exception works.

  4. Ian

    November 20, 2010 at 11:40 am

    On a side note the big winner in this proposed trade is Quincy Poindexter. Now he gets all the backup SF minutes that Ariza will leave available on his poor shooting nights. Monty said he would find a way to get Quincy on the court more.

  5. ap3604

    November 20, 2010 at 11:42 am

    The trade works as long as they do 4 seperate mini transactions and throw in Willie Green:

    1) Trade Peja for Chris Bosh exception
    2) Trade Bayless for David Anderson
    3) Trade Jarret Jack for Willie Green
    4) Trade MoPete exception for Marcus Banks

    Basically your:
    – Trading Bayless for Jarret Jack (a win in my book)
    – Trading Willie Green to get under the luxury tax to make the Raptors take Peja (another win in my book since your replacing Willie Greens production for Jarret Jacks)

    The trade exception not only gets us under the luxury tax but also gives us better flexibility than the Peja contract does so I am all for this trade!!!

  6. Adzs-London bee

    November 20, 2010 at 11:44 am

    So in essence if this trade goes through we gave up a number 1 pick for jarrett jack (not bad, but not getting any younger), Marcus banks or david anderson? Any ideas how, say, sonny weems might work his way into this trade? or as you mentioned ed davis? the only guy mentioned in this trade i would genuinely want is jarrett jack…and still i just don’t get the trade…..

  7. James Online

    November 20, 2010 at 11:55 am

    This trade sounds strange to me because it means that the Raptors would have to commit (again) to Jose Calderon as their primary PG and he has not been good lately (though I blame that in part on the idiocy of the Raptors coach, Jay Triano, who has no business coaching at this level). Raptors have (stupidly) built their nucleus around DeRozan, Weems, and Ed Davis with Jack as part of that vision. Nobody in Toronto expects Calderon to run that “show” (that team plays more like Cirque du Soleil than a smart basketball team). They are still in Turkoglu Blues up there, so bringing in Peja won’t make them happy either. Expiring contract, but that franchise keeps promising a future that never arrives.

    You’ve all seen what I said the day of the Bayless trade. He is not a PG and only a marginal NBA player. Despite the problems, he has improved in Monty’s system.

    Don’t confuse Jarret Jack with a “pass first” mentality, not by any stretch of the imagination. He will dominate the ball and shoot a lot. And I cannot imagine him accepting any role as a backup PG here under Chris Paul. In Toronto he and Calderon shared the role equally, with Jack starting most the time. Note the Raptors record with Jack: miserable. He is not a good presence in the locker room…carries a bad rep. He’ll have to be reigned in by Monty if he really does come to NOLA.

    David Andersen would be a nice addition. He’s an athletic and hustling big. Jason Smith has been terrific but should remain at the 4 for his minutes. Andersen would bring scoring ability to the post and his game complements the others here nicely.

    Marcus Banks has been cut everywhere he’s played and has no place on the Hornets’ active roster. Plus he’s been part of a dysfunctional culture on the Raptors for two years. He got a “t” from the bench in a crucial game last year in which he didn’t even play.

    Toronto’s front office is famous for trades that don’t work (Calderon to Charlotte for Diaw), poor player evaluation, constant turnover of personnel, inability to keep their own free agents. So the stupidity of this trade for them makes sense, but on the other hand, their inability to make anything actually happen might mean the trade won’t be consummated.

    • MaxALM

      November 20, 2010 at 12:34 pm

      agreed about Jarrett Jack. He might be a solid player but he’s the type who won’t take kindly to limited minutes

      • Ryan Schwan

        November 20, 2010 at 12:45 pm

        I don’t see that at all. Jack has always split time, usually shifting from PG to SG. He’s never dominated minutes at a position, and I have never seen anything that makes him out to be a locker room problem – which he’d have to be.

      • Michael McNamara

        November 20, 2010 at 12:45 pm

        Did my adjusted minutes projections and Jack should get 15-19. He will be happy with that. No worries.

      • AgentZiko

        November 20, 2010 at 5:59 pm

        Mike. Ryan.

        The fact that Jack has already had issues with minutes in the past doesn’t seriously worry you? He’s a guy who’s in his prime and would start on most teams. And he KNOWS that. It doesn’t worry you that guys in this league don’t just want to get a paycheck and win titles, but that THEY want to be as big a part of it too?

        Very leary. 15-19 just sounds like so little for a guy like Jack. Even if its behind Paul, and on a team fighting for a high playoff spot.

    • Galen

      November 20, 2010 at 1:26 pm

      “Toronto’s front office is famous for trades that don’t work (Calderon to Charlotte for Diaw), poor player evaluation, constant turnover of personnel, inability to keep their own free agents. So the stupidity of this trade for them makes sense, but on the other hand, their inability to make anything actually happen might mean the trade won’t be consummated.”

      Harsh comments on the Raptors. Trades that don’t work? Calderon was nixed by MJ at last minute. Poor player evaluation? Raptors have drafted and developed Damon Stoudamire, Marcus Camby, Vince Carter, TMac, CB4 and now Bargnani.

      “inability to keep their own free agents” Yeah, that’s why Vince and CB4 both signed long term to stay in Toronto before bolting to try to win elsewhere.

      ” stupidity of this trade for them makes sense ” I don’t know … getting an expiring $14.5 contract and a player who was picked #11 but has never been used as the SG that he is … for Jarrett Jack plus filler? Not bad. Great backup PG with serious flaws. Signed as a free agent, not netting nice pieces.

      —-

      But you know what you really miss? Toronto has made established itself as a basketball market that, you know, actually makes $$$ with stable ownership in MLSE – a multi-billion dollar sports empire.

      New Orleans? A candidate to be contracted in David Sterns decides to do so.

      Sorry, that’s the truth, but I hope it doesn’t happen and CP3 is a Hornet for life … unfortunately the NBA is trending towards “superstar clusters” so good luck.

      • 42

        November 20, 2010 at 3:17 pm

        We have a post up about the myth that New Orleans not being able to support the team. We can and the data supports that conclusion when you look at all if it, not the cherry-picking that rabble-rousing muckrakers toss out thoughtlessly. We’ll be around for a very long time.

        Check the journal section.

        And thanks for the well-wishes

      • James Online

        November 20, 2010 at 3:20 pm

        Galen…wow, a little vitriol (from North of the border maybe?). Guess my comments got you a little. Raptors’ fans can be a little sensitive.

        Good luck developing Bayless as a shooting guard, and I just know the Raptors’ fans will welcome another Euro player. And congrats on the way the Raptors developed Marco. Further kudos for the trade that brought the Raps JuJu. Hornets fans really miss him.

        Good to see you admit that the few good players all leave to “win” elsewhere, ’cause they sure aren’t going to do that in Toronto (which, as you know, has also been pegged for contraction).

        Sorry, that’s the truth.

      • Galen

        November 20, 2010 at 10:00 pm

        Hey, I think New Orleans can, does and would be able to support the Hornets. It’s just the guy who owns you team is stingy with his money and the guy who wants to buy your team doesn’t have deep pockets. Hope that works out for you.

        —-

        “Good to see you admit that the few good players all leave to “win” elsewhere, ’cause they sure aren’t going to do that in Toronto (which, as you know, has also been pegged for contraction).”

        This is hilarious. Is this Nawlins humor? Go look at Forbes franchise values and read up on the Raptors ownership in MLSE.

        The Raptors are a core market for the NBA and would never in your lifetime or mine be contracted unless the NBA itself disbands.

        Thanks for the laugh though. Hope you guys can scare the Lakers/Spurs like you did a few years back. It was terrific to watch.

  8. Nik

    November 20, 2010 at 11:57 am

    i don’t really like this trade it seems a bit rushed and as if we won’t get anything better for peja… other than jarett we get back salary dump players and nothing more than that for our last expendable trading piece.. really we should look to get a solid center as well in this deal

    realllly don’t like this trade methinks we should wait for bayless to understand the offense more

  9. rm

    November 20, 2010 at 11:59 am

    would this mean the end for Pops, MBenga or Gray?

    • Adzs-London bee

      November 20, 2010 at 12:15 pm

      Gray probably….pops has already shown what he can do in the pre season, so i doubt they’ll let him go based on his already established abilities…

      • rm

        November 20, 2010 at 12:32 pm

        I have seen alot of Anderson in Europe and for me he has nothing on Pops. I don’t know why Pops is not doing it here.
        We saw pre season at Memphis and this is what he can do week in week out. I just am confused why we don’t see this more.

      • JCS

        November 20, 2010 at 12:46 pm

        cosign w/London bee

        Gray has made zero impact for this team but he has cost us money. It’s time for him to go.

  10. AgentZiko

    November 20, 2010 at 12:16 pm

    Really unhappy with this trade. It’s not the right move. There’s a reason I liked Bayless as a backup PG to Paul. I WANT PAUL ON THE FLOOR AS MUCH AS POSSIBLE. And Bayless had the ability to play off guard as well, meaning he could play WITH Paul. Jarrett Jack is Paul’s size, and he is a very solid PG that would start for most teams around the league. How is he going to come here and only play 10 minutes a game? It won’t work. He will want more, demand more, and get more. And it just takes away from CP3 being on the court. And all of you know as much as I do just how much CP3 HATES being on the bench. And to give up Peja’s contract for THIS? It just makes no sense to me. MAYBE if Amir Johnson and Jack were the deal, but Marcus Banks and David Anderson? I thought we wanted a defensive minded big man? This trade doesn’t sit well. I really think that it won’t work as well as Demps is hoping it will, and will only lead to ANOTHER trade down the line. And though I admire his willingness to jump on a deal and make moves, I think this one would be very rushed, and would bring us down a step, not up. I thought we were trying to build a team AROUND Paul, not find his future replacement.

    • benmez

      November 20, 2010 at 12:24 pm

      so you want paul playing 40 mins a night and being worn out for the playoffs????

      Jack can also play SG and unlike Bayless he can actually guard that position as well.

    • Schmide234

      November 20, 2010 at 12:53 pm

      “He will want more, demand more, and get more. And it just takes away from CP3 being on the court.”

      i can guarantee you that no one will ever give Jarrett jack minutes at chris pauls expense.
      If the game is close and the fouls are not involved the same rotation will be implemented. If the game is a blowout or close to one, Jack will stay in until the game is over or its close again. simple as that. when we need paul we get him.

    • TopherPrice

      November 20, 2010 at 1:42 pm

      Lol @ jacks getting minutes at CP3’e expense. I bet you think Gortat is capable of throwing a big enough hissy-fit to get minutes from Dwight Howard as well. What a joke. If ya don’t like the trade, ok, but leave fantasy time to the late night sessions of D&D, W.o.W, and NBA 2K11.

    • AgentZiko

      November 20, 2010 at 2:20 pm

      No. I don’t want Paul playing 40 minutes a game. I want Paul playing 35 minutes a game. But Jack playing 13 minutes a game doesn’t work for Jack. There’s a reason Jack is starting in Toronto. He had a hissy fit that he was coming off the bench for Calderon and wanted more time. This occured last season and was a pretty hot topic that got Toronto into trying to trade Calderon initially.

      And Jack CAN’T guard SG’s. Are you crazy? I’ve met Jarrett. He’s 6’0 with shoes on, my height. The only reason he can play alongside Calderon is cuz Jose is 6’4. This will only work against teams playing small ball. And I just can’t see Jarrett being happy with 10-15 minutes a game.

      What I’m trying to say is that I think we could have gotten a better trade with Peja and Thornton going. To me, when I think about it, I would have rather traded those 2 and gotten back a quality player like Iggy, Captain Jack, Wallace, Jason Thompson, Jamison, Diaw, or even Hamilton with some parts and have Bayless play just 10-15 minutes a game, than to get Jarrett Jack, David Anderson, and Marcus Banks. There isn’t much we can do with these parts now unless we package Marcus Banks and Thornton together. But what would that bring us back with about 5 million?

      I just feel like we could have gotten a lot more for Peja’s contract than this. And this didn’t make us BETTER. And now, other than Bellineli, we don’t have any 3 point shooters on the team to help further spread the floor for Paul, and still don’t have a tough inside presence off the bench behind Okafor.

      I LIKE Pops, a lot, but only as a THIRD STRING 4 MAN. We needed someone physical to slide Smith over to the 4, and bang down low. Anderson doesn’t do that.

      It just made little sense to me.

  11. Chumbawumba

    November 20, 2010 at 12:22 pm

    Amir Johnson would be the worst possible thing to get back in this trade. He has one of the worst contracts in the league (yes, it’s only $34 million total, but he’s absolute garbage for that money).

    Peja WAS NOT going to get a big piece. Every team has a big expiring contract or a trade exception. Peja is over the hill. Maybe, just maybe, this will open up some minutes for Marcus Thornton with a 3 guard lineup if Pondexter isn’t quite ready for regular minutes

    • AgentZiko

      November 20, 2010 at 2:37 pm

      I meant it more as I thought we were looking for a defensive minded DOWN LOW type of player to slide Smith over to the 4. Anderson is another perimeter minded player like Smith. It coulda been Reggie Evans for all I cared.

  12. benmez

    November 20, 2010 at 12:22 pm

    Jarret Jack is the reason we are making this trade. Jarret and Willie are going to be money off the bench. Two solid , versatile vetran players who play tough, mistake free basketball.

    However, this trade would not be made had David Andersen not had stepped up the way he did this season. The guy has been a very good player for the raptors on both sides of the ball.

    • whodat504

      November 20, 2010 at 12:26 pm

      The trade does work if peja is traded for jack, banks, and anderson. And then in a separate trade bayless would b traded for bosh exemption. It does work, but hopefully it doesn’t happen. Espn says it would bring us 3.9 mil under cap which wouldn’t be bad.

  13. MaxALM

    November 20, 2010 at 12:31 pm

    “David Andersen is essentially Darius Songaila without the toughness (though he can hit on the pick and pop”

    I never regarded Songaila as being tough–quite the opposite in fact. I hope you meant “Songaila WITH toughness”
    Anyway, I really don’t want ANOTHER big man who can play the pick and pop. Seriously, we already have enough of those. I thought we were trying to get a backup big man who can play tough and rebound. I don’t understand this at all.

    • rm

      November 20, 2010 at 12:34 pm

      We have a backup big who can play tough and rebound. Pops. The problem is that currently he seems to be playing tough and stupid.

      As I have said on this forum, Pops is rated a much better Big than Anderson in Europe and ok Anderson has done ok this season but he has not got the dynamic game Pops has got.

      • Adzs-London bee

        November 20, 2010 at 12:41 pm

        Seconded….and not because of nationality either as rm said in europe pops is far the higher rated of the two, and he may not be ”big” for his position in nba terms, but neither is dejuan blair, and he has much the same attirbutes, plus 3 inches on aformentioned blair…..

    • Zwie

      November 20, 2010 at 12:44 pm

      this is completely off topic. but MAxALM,….

      your profile picture…. do you know where that picture comes from???

    • AgentZiko

      November 20, 2010 at 2:33 pm

      Thats what I thought too Max. I thought we needed another bruiser.

  14. Michael McNamara

    November 20, 2010 at 12:37 pm

    Looks like we got the main topic for our podcast tomorrow night Ryan.

    On the flight back from New Orleans, I made a full pros and cons list and the pors won out 9-6.

    Biggest con I haven’t seen being talked about is that at best David Anderson is a Jason Smith clone. Good pick and pop guy who hustles and can be active but lacks lateral quickness and the ability to defend quality post players. FOuls too much. The two won’t work well together. I would actually like to see Anderson get a majority of his minutes with Okafor.

    Biggest pro I don’t see here is the nearly 12 million dollars saved (5 mil initial savings, 5 mil tax check, 2 mil reduction of lux tax payment). That might allow the Hornets to use an exemption in February to get another piece and/or do something with the flexibility plus Banks’ expiring.

    As for how this trade will work as reported- it will be a fairly complex swapping of TE and loopholes, but from what I have heard they can get this done without adding any additional pieces. Haggling over the cash Hornets will include. Hornets likely offered 1-1.5 mil and Raps want closer to 3.

  15. Schmide234

    November 20, 2010 at 12:59 pm

    As far as im concerned this trade is a great one for the hornets. drop two usless pieces in peja and bayless and pick up one piece that could mean a lot to us in jack. Jack has the ability to come into the game and not only maintain a lead but to expand on it. We would also be able to get back in games with a superior bench. Also this sures up the whole situation where if CP were to sprain something a little and be out for 3 games or so, we wouldnt have this monstrous drop off like we would with bayless. This is a strong trade and i like it.

    honesty im a little worried about Jack’s personality tho from what a few others have said. I trust monty and demps to get the right guys tho

  16. Basketball Bloke

    November 20, 2010 at 1:00 pm

    This trade puzzles me, like all of Demp’s trades have done so far. But I have to give him the benefit of the doubt. Belinelli, Smith, and Green were not even playing for really bad teams. Hornets bring them in and sudennly they’re key contributors. Jack is a good player, and I think Anderson will surprise. He’s tougher than people give him credit for.
    http://www.basketballbloke.com/2010/11/hornets-and-raptors-trade-report/

  17. ur_gmas_daughter

    November 20, 2010 at 1:01 pm

    I trust Demps and every trade he’s made thus far has made him look like a common thief for the value he got off some of the trades but I’m very confused. Why wouldn’t Dell make a trade of Peja/MT5 closer to the All Star Break when teams like 76ers, Raptors, Rockets, will be desperate to blow up their teams. Won’t we receive greater value during that timeframe? Is PG where we need an upgrade? I thought we need a backup big and Ryan Anderson is that much better than Pops/Mbenga. I think a Peja/MT5 is worth a big name if a team is desperate to dump talent and start over (i.e see Gaol, Pau).

    • AgentZiko

      November 20, 2010 at 2:21 pm

      I completely agree. This is what I was trying to say earlier.

  18. RobertM320

    November 20, 2010 at 1:05 pm

    Is it possible that Demps has a better idea of what the owners/league is looking for in the next CBA? If he’s preparing for a hard cap, its going to be really difficult to make moves when a lot of teams will be dumping salary. Maybe it’ll be easier to move or ditch pieces/parts going forward to get the player he wants, rather than trying to move one big piece (Peja).

  19. JCS

    November 20, 2010 at 1:13 pm

    “I love what this says about Dell Demps. He made a move to get Bayless, thinking he would provide a solid backup option at the point. 10 games later, Bayless has shown no ability to play that position, and Demps is willing to make a move to get a much superior backup at the point. That’s unheard of. GMs are always loathe to admit a mistake. Demps apparently does not.”
    ————————————————————————————

    No ability? Jeez man. That’s harsh. I think Bayless has underperformed too, but I don’t want to write him off just yet. U of A guards are some of the best in the league [Google it] so with or without us I think he can live up to his fellow alumni*, eventually.
    As for Jarrett Jack, I think he’d fit in right away. The rest of the guys are scrubs and I don’t give two shakes about ’em. Nonetheless, this trade shows Demps is taking advantage of a chance to dump $tojakovic for a decent return. Hopefully, this move plus the eventual outing of Aaron Gray will take us over the hump.

    • 42

      November 20, 2010 at 2:34 pm

      You clearly think too much of Gray and his $1m per year. Try some perspective and your understanding of the game will extend beyond googling who went to which school.

    • jochbe

      November 20, 2010 at 3:52 pm

      U of A guards like Mustafa Shakur and Jason Gardner? They are both tearing up the league!

      I agree with your general point that Bayless has potential and shouldn’t be written off yet, but the whole Arizona pedigree buisness is goofy. Aside from the fact that there are clear counterexamples, Bayless was at Arizona for one year, and that year was filled with turmoil (that was the real beginning of the end for Lute Olson).

      By the way, Georgia Tech has something of a point guard tradition as well…

      • JCS

        November 21, 2010 at 10:44 am

        “U of A guards like Mustafa Shakur and Jason Gardner?”

        More like Jason Terry 6th man of the year. Gilbert Arenas a 3 time All-Star. Mike Bibby All-Rookie first team. Andre Iguodala All-Rookie first team, All-Star, and Gold Medal winner. And Steve Kerr, 2 time All-Star, 5 time NBA Champion. There’s a gang of other players who racked up awards, but I digress. I’m not sure of what you think of U of A, Lute, or the PAC-10, but not for nothing it’s my favorite school out west.
        As for Georgia Tech, not so much. I’ve got friends and family who went to ACC schools but it wasn’t there. Regardless, Chris Bosh is my favorite big man. We’ll just have to see about your boy, JJ.

        By the way UNC >>>>>>>>>> GTECH

  20. TopherPrice

    November 20, 2010 at 1:18 pm

    In my many tweets with Larry Coon it has been made abundantly clear that trade exceptions must be used by themselves. As in 1 player traded for trade exception of equal or higher value. So yes we could trade Peja for the Bosh T.E. straight up.

    The problem with the Bayless must be traded at a later date is correct. I suspect that the trade will actually be the Hornets trade Peja for the three guys, then trade Bayless for part of the Bosh exception. This is the only way the salaries can match in any number of trades. This means that if the hornets are going to take on 3 players and only lose one 14-1 = 13 +3 = someone has to get cut.

    I’m not going to speculate on who will get the ax in this scenario, but it’s either Pops or Mbenga as they are the only non-guaranteed contracts left on the books. Maybe Pops to the D-league?

    Interesting times.

    • TopherPrice

      November 20, 2010 at 1:23 pm

      They could trade Peja for Jacks, Banks, and their full Bosh exception. Then trade Bayless for Andersen. I don’t know if they would do that, as they are giving up the Bosh exception for nothing.

      This allows for no cutting of players on the Hornets though.

    • JCS

      November 20, 2010 at 1:54 pm

      You seem to know more inside information then Chris Broussard. If anyone the official bloggers for H247 should be you, Ryan, Joe, and Mac.

    • 42

      November 20, 2010 at 2:40 pm

      The Bayless trade restriction is that he can’t be packaged for like 60 days. He can be traded straight up anytime.

  21. HiMyNameisSteven

    November 20, 2010 at 1:23 pm

    to be honest im not happy… u dont trade a few of your best pieces to get a player that will play 15 min a game… we could of easily gotten jason thompson with a similar deal, a posititon of much greater need.

    • AgentZiko

      November 20, 2010 at 2:23 pm

      Again, agree with Steven. Just not the right deal. Other positions were of concern.

    • jochbe

      November 20, 2010 at 3:59 pm

      You have been on the phone with Sacramento’s GM, then?

      • 42

        November 20, 2010 at 4:25 pm

        Exactly.

        We don’t know what deals ould actually be made, what Demps is looking for today, and what the larger plan is. We may still get these guys you covet. Or Carmelo.

  22. NOBanks96

    November 20, 2010 at 1:29 pm

    I dont like this trade at all. Bayless is very talented but has jus underperformed we need to give him more time in the sysytem. Plus like Michael McNamara said, Anderson is another jason smith. I dont even wanna hear the Hornets brought up in the same discussion with toronto. I wud only like to see a trade wit Amir johnson & sonny weems

  23. andy

    November 20, 2010 at 1:41 pm

    No way to get or do we not want Linas (and his contract) over banks?

    Our backups would then be Jack/MT5/Linas/Smith/Anderson which looks SOLID.

  24. RobertM320

    November 20, 2010 at 1:54 pm

    Here’s an interesting thought… what could the Raptors get in exchange for Bosh’s trade exception AND Peja’s expiring contract? That’s a ton of available money.

  25. BeesGivingEffort

    November 20, 2010 at 1:55 pm

    I think people are missing a portion of the bigger picture too. God forbid it, but what happens if CP3 misses 5-15 games due to injury at some point during the year? This whole operation would pretty much go to hell right now to be honest. Bayless or Green can NOT run a team for 35-40 minutes a night. You know who could at least help us tread water though in the meantime should the disastrous happen? Jarrett Jack.

    • HiMyNameisSteven

      November 20, 2010 at 1:58 pm

      marcus thorton

      • BeesGivingEffort

        November 20, 2010 at 2:01 pm

        lol?

    • Michael McNamara

      November 20, 2010 at 2:16 pm

      One of my HUGE pro’s- nice work. CP3 is gonna bang his hip or twist an ankle and miss 3-5 games this year most likely. Could mean the difference in a division title if we go 3-1 in those games as opposed to 1-3

      • HiMyNameisSteven

        November 20, 2010 at 2:32 pm

        @michael- we have marcus thorton though lol… i feel like i can joke about it now since its obvious its never gunna happen. You trade our best trade chip and probably one of our other best chips to get… wait for it… another guard. We already dont have enough time to get good players like thorton out there and we live with trading our best pieces to get another guard rather than bettering our forward rotation. I dont like it at all. We could of easily gotten jason thompson easily with this trade package

      • JCS

        November 20, 2010 at 2:56 pm

        @Steven
        Not having a Emeka vs. not having CP is the lesser of two evils. So in the case CP is in on the DL we need a back up PG more so than we need a back up center.

  26. andy

    November 20, 2010 at 2:03 pm

    errrr, I forgot about green, we still have a logjam at the 2, and packaging peja with MT5 was our main trade bait. Marcus is in the last year of his small contract so won’t be able to get nearly equal back in talent in return, and if he can’t find his way on the court, he won’t resign and we’d be letting him walk for nothing in return.

    He gives us great depth right now, but why not throw him and pops/mbenga in and try to get kleiza and weems or davis?

  27. TopherPrice

    November 20, 2010 at 2:06 pm

    So no cuts needed as the bayless trade for T.E. is not a wait type of thing. I am happy with this trade for the Hornets. Backup PG is solved for the next 2-3 years barring injury. If CP3 goes down or Monty wants to rest him a game in a back to back, we have a nice PG who can play starter minutes.

    This puts Marcus back in a uni most likely. Gray or Mbemga is 1 suit, Banks is another, and Pops, Smith, Marcus, or Andersen is the other. I say Andersen just because of the time it will take for him to integrate into the system. So hopefully Marcus can use that time to prove he is worth staying in the Uni.

  28. andy

    November 20, 2010 at 2:11 pm

    sorry for the spam, but one last comment. Jarret Jack and CP3 are very good friends from when they played in the ACC together. I went to wake and only saw Chris in passing a few times while I was there, as we had some classes in the same building but I was in grad school when he was a freshman.

    Happenned to run into him in Vegas for the rookie league, stopped a chatted for a bit, was just about to line up kicking his ass in some bowling and then Jarrett Jack comes by and says “yo CP, we gotta bounce”, and ever since then Jack has been my least favorite player in the NBA.

    • AgentZiko

      November 20, 2010 at 2:26 pm

      LoL. This was a priceless comment Andy. If I was about to Bowl with CP3 and Jack interrupted it, I’d be pissed too. LoLoLoLoL.

    • JCS

      November 20, 2010 at 3:01 pm

      Forgive and forget andy.

    • 42

      November 20, 2010 at 3:23 pm

      I’d be totally with you if that happened to me.

      Next time I talk to Chris, I’ll leave the conversation early and say I have to bounce. No worries.

  29. Hornet

    November 20, 2010 at 2:24 pm

    “That Hornets trade was brilliant. Saved them serious cash ($11m including tax) + Jack will really help them as a 3rd guard. Kudos to Demps.” – Bill Simmons’ twitter.

    Well that’s good to hear. I’ll post my thoughts once I see the details ironed out with the cash.

  30. AgentZiko

    November 20, 2010 at 2:31 pm

    One last thing. What bugs me soooo much about this trade has to do with Hornet’s comment. It sucks to know that the Hornets would give up so much just to get under the cap. It shows the direction of the organization. I feel like with the threat of losing CP3, the goal would be to build a team that would SERIOUSLY contend for a title NOW. Not 2 or 3 years from now. Sucks to know that getting UNDER the cap was that important. When will the sale of team finally go through? Can’t wait for it to. I want to see someone come in ready to spend and build a serious contender before the Heat have a year of struggles under their belt and while the Lakers are having injury problems, not to see a team try to get under the cap.

    • andy

      November 20, 2010 at 2:45 pm

      while I agree, $11 million dollars is alot of money, bayless wasn’t doing much, and from Stein’s twitter wasn’t fitting in well with the team chemistry wise.

      I just would have hopes to get someone other than Banks, or something that solves our logjam at the 2.

      • andy

        November 20, 2010 at 2:51 pm

        we have the top PG in the league, and now one of the top backups in the league. Not to mention this could even be just a CP3 play. Chris is going to have a huge smile on his face today.

    • TopherPrice

      November 20, 2010 at 3:00 pm

      You are over-valuing Peja’s expiring. A major need was a backup point who is consistent in his production, and not going to be turnover prone. You fixed that problem in this trade. You still have 6million back in expiring contracts and we are now below the TAX, not cap, thus allows us to make further moves that INCREASE our total salary commitment for this season.

      So NOW we can package Banks, Andersen, and Marcus for someone worth around 8 million. It Banks, Green, and Marcus for someone worth 10.5ish. The team would still be under the Tax or only slightly over and you have your big assest AND a real high quality backup PG for the future.

      • TopherPrice

        November 20, 2010 at 3:33 pm

        Now that I had a chance to look at the salaries, if we packaged Banks, Andersen, and Marcus we can take back $10 million in salary due to the 125% rule vs. the $8 million combined in their salary.

    • RobertM320

      November 20, 2010 at 3:07 pm

      But AgentZiko, you’ll be singing a different tune if the new CBA includes a hard cap and teams like the Lakers, Heat, Celtics and Mavs have to endure some serious roster gutting. Demps has a JOB to do. And in order for him to KEEP his job in the long term, he has to make the right decisions for the franchise, not for Chris Paul. The franchise will survive whether or not CP3 remains.
      Just like the Cavaliers without LeBron. Just like the Jazz post-Stockton and Malone, etc, etc. We are supposed to be Hornets fans first; Chris Paul fans SECOND. Let’s trust Dell to do the best job possible, and let the chips fall where they may. If Chris leaves, he leaves, and we move on. Better to be in a position to compete if Chris leaves than to be where Minnesota was post-Garnett.

      • AgentZiko

        November 20, 2010 at 3:54 pm

        Topher, I completely understand it from the salary aspect. But I see few teams willing to take on Banks, Anderson, and Thornton for someone around the 10 mil range. Even in a dump. At that point, they would also have to probably drop 2 guys on their roster to make the trade work. Something that wouldn’t have been an Issue had it been Peja’s contract.

        Robert, this is the difference between small market teams and big market teams. I live in LA but have been a long time Hornet fan, back to the Mourning/Johnson days. There is no such thing as roster gutting here. They print money dude. There is never a game that isn’t sold out. Same goes for Miami, Boston, and Dallas. They have owners who want to win EVERY year, and do what it takes to get there EVERY year because the further they get in the playoffs, the more money the franchise pockets. There is no such thing as getting “under the cap” to them because of the benefits of selling out their stadiums, and getting further in the playoffs.

        Watching Hornet games, I see so many seats empty all the time. I really felt the team needed to do something to put more “buzz” into the air because even at 10-1, there are empty seats that would probably have filled had they gone for a bigger name. And a bigger name probably would have put the team in position to seriously contend. I don’t think you get how long it takes for a team to rebuild after losing a once in a lifetime player like CP3. He is the difference between the Hornets getting their first NBA Championship, and not being able to contend for one for another decade.

      • 42

        November 20, 2010 at 4:26 pm

        Clippers are in LA. LA supports winning, not sports.

      • TopherPrice

        November 20, 2010 at 5:38 pm

        Zilko,

        You mean like say Kevin Martin at 10.6? Plus we could take another player or two off their hands using one of our T.E. to help them clear that roster spot, because we can then cut Pops or Mbenga before they are guaranteed at the trade deadline and not have to pay them their full salary and still be at 15 players on the team.

        Oh and as I said, you change Green and Andersen and you are now at $11.98 you can take back if you are going after a SG like Martin.

        Hmmm, and that idea just came to me in 30 seconds. Ya think Demps might not be a bit better than you and I at coming up with options for those 3 player to get a $10 Million dollar player beings as he eat sleeps and breathes this stuff? I find it best not to question the guy who is 4 for 5 on making great trades in less than 6 months.

        The arena being filled has about 5% or less to do with who we sign during the season. Please try to break yourself of your LA mindset. You have been around front-runners and Laker fans too much. 42, myself, and a whole bunch of other people have explained ad-nauseum why the seats are empty this early this season. Yes it is a theory, but one developed by those who are actually from the market being spoken about down the noses of those from larger markets. If you take some time and read 42’s journal on the attendance over the years, you will see that like for like (bad season leading into a good start and great season) the Hornets attendance is actually on pace to beat the magical year of 07-08.

        You can bitch all you want if they are not selling selling out come January. I will be right there with you, but believe me both you and I will have no use for our bitching britches if the Hornets stay in the top 4 of the West. So until then, try and think outside of the conventional thinking you hear so much in LA. Louisiana is NOT conventional. Conventional wisdom doesn’t tell you to keep coming back from centuries of natural and man-made disasters. Conventional wisdom says that the Saints were moving to San Antonio and if they stayed in NOLA would NEVER be in a Superbowl much less win one. In case you didn’t hear, the owner was too cheap. Oh wait, a GM and new coach working together with their superstar leader of the team to create a TEAM is what mattered, not the dollars they spent and NAMES that weren’t on the TEAM.

        Kinda sounds familiar…

      • AgentZiko

        November 20, 2010 at 6:27 pm

        Topher buddy,

        I HAVE read those journals. They make perfect sense and I agree with them. Been reading almost everything on hornets247.

        I completely understand the basis of this trade. I just feel that this same trade could have been done with better parts to it. I will put a journal up later on again and throw something out there to compare with.

        Kevin Martin would be a DREAM scenario. But there will be other teams with better offers that will go after him, and will offer more than what the Hornets can offer. I guess to me, when looking at it from another teams point of view, Peja (because he can still shoot the lights out) Thornton and some parts is MUCH more attractive than Banks, Anderson, and Thornton.

        Monty WONT give up Green. I guarantee you he wont. The guy is head over heals crazy about Willie because he’s known him from so long and they share a close relationship.

        I know Demps knows what he’s doing, and I am not trying to degrade the guys work. I know he sees a bigger picture to all this that none of us know about yet. Was more hoping to see the splash that could really elevate this team to compete with the likes of LA/Boston. I think those teams set a bar that everyone is trying to reach.

        And as for living in LA. I’ve been blessed to watch 2 amazing guards play in this town. Magic Johnson is arguably the best PG of all time and if he wasn’t diagnosed with HIV, I think the history books would be much different in the title race of Magic vs. Jordan. I have watched Kobe Bryant play since he was 17. I see how special of a player he is and I know what he has done for this community, and for the titles he’s brought and shows he’s put on, I absolutely am crazy about him.

        But I’ve also watched CP3 play since college. Because of my respect for Magic, I wont say it yet, but CP3, I feel, will go down as the best PG to EVER play basketball. What he does on the court is absolutely astonishing to me. He and I are the same age, and I still remember hearing about him and Lebron James back in High School and how amazing they were going to be. And being a PG that was recruited quite a bit myself before going down with an ankle injury that ruined 2 years of my life, and took away all my quickness, I started paying attention to CP3 and what he was doing. He is a VERY special player, and I want nothing more than to see him bring New Orleans as many championships as possible because I see what he can do with what he has, and that just a few more pieces can really take his team over the top.

        The Lakers have NO ONE to guard CP. And if he gets 1 more person to get the ball to, he can take them down this season. I really think we’re that close. I’m not just saying that. I was hoping that with Peja’s deal, we could get that ONE more guy.

        So… Whats our next move guys? We need a SF and back up center. Someone mentioned Battier. Love that. What else?

        Oh, and 42. Clippers are just a sad, sad afterthought. Having them in LA has been miserable for the name. We’ve been trying to kick them down to Anaheim and San Diego for years. LoL.

  31. L_Reazy

    November 20, 2010 at 3:10 pm

    Who can disagree with adding Jarret Jack as our primary back-up at the PG position along with Marcus Bank as the 3rd string insurance. Jack is the same PG that Miami wanted to trade-for last month to start for them. He’d definitely help Marcus Thornton on defense and offense! Also, I watched David Andersen play with the Rockets last year, and he’d be a definite upgrade over Mbenga, Gray, and Pops. He can bang inside, get rebounds in a short amount of time, plays decent defense -obviously coming from the defensive-minded Houston Rockets-, and he can shoot like Jason Smith. David Andersen helped the Rockets stay competitive last year while filling-in for Yao Ming at times. He will be a very capable back-up Center. However….

    ….Jerryd Bayless has a ‘TRT’ clause and can’t be traded until December 23rd, 2010. TRT means that since Bayless was recently traded-for he cannot be traded until a later date. I wonder if Toronto’s ‘Trade Exception’ has anything to do with this rule being nullified at this time so that the trade can be completed sooner than later? Does anyone know how Jerryd Bayless can be traded ‘right now’ with this rule in affect?

    L_Reazy

    • RobertM320

      November 20, 2010 at 3:13 pm

      Reazy,

      The rule says he can’t be packaged in a trade. He can be traded straight up. This will ultimately be two trades.

  32. Caz

    November 20, 2010 at 6:03 pm

    You have not addressed the most important concern here:

    What happens to Peja heads? Will Marco heads be made instead? Should the Hornets wait til the trade deadline to manufacture new heads???

    JK. Great trade. Demps >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Bower.

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