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Out of Sight, out of their Minds

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Published: October 6, 2010

The NBA GM Survey just came out.  It’s a pretty extensive questionnaire that asks NBA GMs to rank all sorts of things, including likely MVP, best player at each position, fastest player with the ball, etc, etc.

One thing is very apparent from the survey, however.  Chris Paul’s injury-marred season and rumor-marred off-season has harmed how he is regarded in the NBA.  He slipped in many categories that he dominated last year.  In particular, half of the GMs in the league rank Deron Williams as the best point guard in the league now.

Oh yeah?! Well half you guys have losing teams.  So clearly you should shut up!

Am I right or am I right, people?  No?

Ahem.  Anyways, here’s a link to the survey if you want to see the whole thing. If you only care about categories where the Hornets were recognized, here they are:

Best Point Guard in the NBA
CP3 fell to second, with 37% of the vote.  Deron Williams had 50%.  (The year before, Paul got it with 78% of the vote)

Player most likely to have a breakout season?
Marcus Thornton received a vote. (Collison was tied for 4th)

Which player forces opposing coaches to make the most adjustments?
CP3 received a vote.

Which player best defends the passing lanes in the NBA?
CP3 and Trevor Ariza tied for 3rd with 10% of the vote.(CP3 won it last year with 25% of the vote) No passing allowed!

Which player is the fastest with the ball?
CP3 comes in second behind Rose with 17.9% of the vote.(CP3 won it last year with 43% of the vote)

Which player is the best passer?
CP3 came in second behind Nash with 14.3% of the vote.

Which player is the most dangerous in the open floor?
CP3 came in second behind LeBron with 10.7% of the vote.

Which player is the best leader?
CP3 tied Kobe Bryant for 3rd with 14.3% of the vote.

Which Player has the best Basketball IQ?

CP3 received a vote.

Oh, and since I can’t let it go, I do have one more thing to point out about Deron Williams being selected as the best PG.  He doesn’t show up as great in ANY other category.  Not even the Point Guard-related ones.  He’s not on the best leader list.  He’s not considered by anyone as the fastest with the ball or the most dangerous in the open floor.  He’s not listed by anyone as the best perimeter defender or passing lanes defender.  He’s not even on the best passer list.  He’s on none of them.  CP3 got votes in 7 categories.

So really, Deron Williams?

93 comments
SaysWho
SaysWho

Both are far and away the best point guards in the NBA, and taking regular season performance in a vacuum, Chris Paul has the edge. That's pretty much undeniable. The one factor, and huge factor mind you, that makes this a debate, and springs Deron as the premiere point guard in the league was their performances against Denver. Both were guarded by similar players in Jones and Aflallo, and trapped constantly in the half court. Deron Williams was insanely aggressive in handling that pressure defense, making Paul look timid in comparison. Aggression I hadn't seen from a point guard since Paul was destroying Jason Kidd a couple years back. Just as important, he shut down Billups on the other end of the floor, leaving him absolutely no day-light to shoot a jumper. One of the few point guards I've seen that got in his head. Doing all of this with a team down two starters. Chris Paul will have a bounce back season, he will regain his place on top. But, when the going gets tough in the playoffs, Deron Williams elevates his game like no other point guard, on both ends of the floor, an absolute beast. I will enjoy watching both of their careers and the debate is only going to get more heated!

James Grayson
James Grayson

It seems Jazz fans are trying to convince themselves more than us, of who the better point guard is. They preach team play yet are arguing over an individual accolade, talk about hypocrisy.

JJ455
JJ455

First one with a title wins

QueenBee
QueenBee

I've talked enough on this subject though guys. It was fun but it's really run it's course with me at least. Go to your forum and celebrate your point guard being voted #1 by GM's. I'm now going elsewhere to discuss our players rotations. Cheers.

jazzLand
jazzLand

These stats such as steal, rebound that in your eyes make Chris Paul so dominant compared to Deron Williams are really over-rated. If Chris doens't guard the player on the opposite team that he is supposed to but rather focusing on stealing the ball and as result, the other player scores easily. what is the value of that steal... "woooo I am better cus I steal more balls"... Don't overlook the style of basketball both play; flex system and open "no system" Hornet's system. Sloan frowns upon leaving your man and focusing on stealing.... He gets mad at Krilenko for that matter..... If you have a good seven-footer and a very good re bounder in your power-forward position, there is no need for Williams to try to rebound unless the ball comes to him... here we go... that is why Chris Paul has better stat than Deron. That that translate to more wins? questionable... to me more to loss than win. Based on just stat, declaring Chris Paul better than Deron Williams is wrong. Any nba fan can tell you that.......................................... Williams is better shooter, bigger, durable........... case closed......... peace.

QueenBee
QueenBee

Aww cry me a river and go write a letter to Yahoo. LOL! http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/blog/ball_dont_lie/post/Ranking-the-point-guards-10-through-No-1?urn=nba-263267 No one here cares what makes Sloan mad. Does turnovers make him mad? Why aren't any of you answering that? Like I said, Paul doesn't jeopardize the teams defense. Paul always has a better defensive rating than Deron but with Paul being out most of the season Deron finally had a better defensive rating than Paul. By like 2 points. Again, we here don't need convincing. Sounds like you're really trying to convince yourself though. Like I said once in this thread somewhere above, Deron is great for the Jazz and Paul is great for the Hornets. Paul has had to do more for his team than Deron. I think I can say for certain that Deron would never be able to carry Paul's cast to 56 wins. This past season was the first in about 2 seasons that the Jazz finished with a better record than the Hornets. You're not worth anymore of my time. Good day.

42
42

jazzLand, Here is a link to a post above http://www.hornets247.com/blog/2010/10/06/11683/#comment-185 Which has some stats about scoring in assists for the past 2 years. Chris is higher in both. So calling him a better shooter, or a better passer, is shaky at best, but I think wrong is a better word. Yeah, it really seems to get to the pith of it, doesn't it? Assertions just don't hold up against data, my friend. And as has been said many times, including by Hornets fans in this thread: The Jazz have been better than the Hornets for 2 years. It's due to the team, including the fantastic play of Williams. Oh, Jazz fans . . . you're welcome.

MC Welk
MC Welk

Speaking of systems, Paul dominates the ball. The Jazz run a flex offense wherein several other players accumulate assists (generally the Jazz are at or near the top of the league in team assists). On defense Paul gambles more for steals. This is something Sloan frowns upon. Also the Jazz have had vacuums on the defensive glass so Williams' rebounding totals are lower. As for shooting http://www.slcdunk.com/2010/9/15/1691396/myth-busting-the-nba-is-deron Back to my 5-set tennis match comment, let them play the games. This is what makes the NBA so much fun.

QueenBee
QueenBee

Even when Tyson Chandler was a #1 offensive rebounder in the league and #2 overall rebounder, Chris Paul still averaged more rebounds. Paul isn't really in there battling big guys for rebounds but he is quick enough to chase down a long ball. But there have been times when he has disappeared under the goal amongst the trees and here comes the smallest guy on the court with the rebound. That just about always gets an applause from the crowd. LOL. Also, Paul doesn't gamble for steals to where he is hurting his team by being out of position or anything. He's not letting a guy blow by him and then try to tap it from behind ala Rajon Rondo. And he also has a knack for being pesky as h*ll and just flat out taking the ball from an opponent. That reminds me of an article I read a while back about Paul's steals.... "And it's the way he does what he does. His steals aren't typically the result of "getting in passing lanes." Those are gambling-steals, Allen Iverson steals. Paul actually takes the ball from dudes. "Gimme dat." No point guard, other than maybe Rajon Rondo, pressures the ball, like CP3." http://www.nba.com/2009/news/features/vince_thomas/04/07/paul.20090407/ And if Sloan frowns upon gambling steals how much does he frown on turnovers? It's amazing considering the way Paul dominates the ball he doesn't average 4 turns per game. As far as defense, about a season or two ago, I really haven't been bothered to look up recent stats but about a season or two ago, it was shown (maybe at 82games.com, I'm not sure) that the Hornets defense is better with Paul on the floor and the Jazz defense better when Deron is on the bench. I didn't say it though. The stats did. How much do you think Sloan frowned in that game when Devin Brown scored 30 and the Jazz were in position to score to possibly win the game and Deron threw the ball away right into Chris Paul's thieving hands?

42
42

Wow.

QueenBee
QueenBee

I'm done with this 42. It was fun but it's not us over here that needs convincing. Why are we just about the last team to play a preseason game? I'm ready to get this season underway. Taking too long man.

42
42

I'm not complaining at all. I love it. If Chris reads this, he'll got get a QueenBee jersey; take that to the bank. Good job. Really.

QueenBee
QueenBee

Yeah I must be feeling kind of chatty today. Hahaha.

Jefferson
Jefferson

Solid 27 posts QueenBee. Excited for the season to start. Let's revisit this thread at the all-star break and again when the playoffs come around. :)

QueenBee
QueenBee

I think Jazz/Deron fans only watch Chris Paul when he plays the Jazz. And they'll say they watched that dismal playoffs against the Nuggets but ignore the series against the Mavs and Spurs. Get some league pass or something. And try watching how other positions on the court matchup against each other when these teams meet. Anyway, I'm raising my glass for both teams to have healthy, successful seasons. ;)

QueenBee
QueenBee

Anybody remember that article after Deron's and CP's rookie season where AK47 told Deron to not worry about playing against Paul and that it would be Hornets against Jazz and AK told Deron that his teammates will be there to help him? Anyone remember that? See? For Deron it's always been about himself against CP3. And guess what guys? Derrick Rose is better than Paul too because he's bigger and the Bulls have won the games.

QueenBee
QueenBee

All Jazz/Deron fans have only had 2 things to hold onto as to why Deron is better than Chris Paul. He's bigger and he 'owns' Paul head to head. As if it's only those two on the court when these teams meet. That's the only 2 things they've been able to hold firmly to. For years it seems like they can't enjoy the great play of their great point guard because they're worrying about Paul and what he's doing. Everytime Paul gets selected for something and Deron doesn't here they go .... "well this will put a chip on Deron's shoulder" or "this will fuel Deron's fire". Imagine if there were no chips to put on his shoulder. Would he even bother to play as hard as he can? Thank Chris Paul for being Deron's motivator.

QueenBee
QueenBee

It's also been no secret that Deron definitely gets up for Paul. He's been spending most of his career in Paul's shadow and trying to prove he was the right pick for the Jazz. He was the right pick for the Jazz and Chris Paul certainly was the right pick for the Hornets. I go to Jazz forums and I've seen threads questioning whether the Jazz should have drafted Paul. And I mean these threads are started by Jazz fans that love their team and love Deron. They've even questioned if Deron is a max contract player. I've never seen such questions on a Hornets forum.

QueenBee
QueenBee

And then wait, did someone say Chris Paul became darling because of Katrina? LMAO. So Katrina made Chris Paul put up the numbers he did? Paul was voted ROY while playing in OKC because of Katrina? Wow. OK then. Who was the point guard for the Knicks when 9-1-1 happened? Did he put up historical numbers and became NBA 'darling'? I don't remember. Someone please refresh my memory because I really don't remember. Deron is great but deep in the back of their minds they know why GM's voted Deron #1. They know. And yeah, Deron is better than Paul. At turning the ball over. What I don't understand is how can a player be better than one player but yet he's never been a serious MVP candidate, has never made an All-NBA First team, has never made an All-Defense team, has never led the league in any stat at his position, I could go on but I'm trying to understand. Deron could NEVER have taken Paul's 07-08 cast to 56 wins. NEVER.

42
42

Queen, don't hurt 'em. And what are those things you are saying? Facts? Reason? I need to read about those . . . something about them just seem . . . funny . . .

QueenBee
QueenBee

Read about em baby! Read about em. LOL!!

QueenBee
QueenBee

LOL! Look at em. They have to come try to convince Hornets fans. LMAO. I should have known when I came here and saw this thread had 48 comments.

Jefferson
Jefferson

So QueenBee, if Chris Paul is so superior to D-Will, tell me why he hasn't elevated his game or improved his team? Why does he always seem to choke whenever he plays opposite of Deron Williams? If I posted on saltcityhoops.com that Chris Paul was a joke, I would hope that NO fans would attempt to defend their star. I'm sure that Joe is LIVID that he's getting page views and comments. :)

Jefferson
Jefferson

My bad...just looked up to one or two comments and saw Joe's name hyperlinked to hornets247.com. Great discussion, though, absent a few crazies...can't wait for the season. Hope CP3 and D-Will can duel it out and stay healthy for years to come!

QueenBee
QueenBee

Chris Paul has elevated his game each and every season. Pay attention please. For one he has to be on the court to improve his team. 08-09 the Hornets had no business in the playoffs but Paul did his best to get them there and there they ran into a better, deeper, healthier team in the Nuggets. And well we all know what happened in 09-10 but to say Paul hasn't elevated his game is crazy. And let me tell you why Chris Paul supposedly 'chokes' when they play the Jazz. First off, Jerry Sloan has been playing Paul like a superstar since he entered the league. Paul's supporting cast can never get anything done against the Jazz. When Paul blows by Deron, AK or Boozer or someone would be right there waiting on Paul to kick out because they knew fully well Paul would get by Deron. Then when Paul kicks out, said Hornets player never knocks down shots. Deron has had a better team than Paul all the way from his Hall of Famer Coach to the bench. There isn't a person in the world that would take West and Peja over Boozer and AK47. Or Byron Scott over Jerry Sloan. Even when Chris Paul has a good game or when Deron has been in foul trouble, the Jazz still end up winning by about 20 points. That's a great system Sloan runs over there.

42
42

I think if you took a hard look at the construction of this team, I think you'll see that Chris, like Deron, has improved the play of the team. What he hasn't done is improve the construction of the team. Chris has good games against the Jazz, just like Deron has had some good ones. It's the rest of you guys that's the problem, I think. You guys are a tough team and the Hornets haven't played well against you. Kudos. I don't think it reflects on point guard play. When we beat you in Utah last year (for the first time in a long time), Deron put up better numbers than Chris, yet we won (http://www.basketball-reference.com/boxscores/201001040UTA.html). There's more to it. Yeah? Have the Jazz been the better team. For the last 2 years, for sure. 2007-2008 . . . It's arguable but I'll take the Hornets. This year . . . It'll be fun to find out.

Ryan Schwan
Ryan Schwan

I'm very upset. Traffic is highly overrated. Oh, and my name isn't Joe. ;)

42
42

Jazzman, if you continue to be purposefully obtuse, or if you just can't help it, you will probably alienate some readers and your good points will fall on deaf ears, figuratively speaking. With me last paragraph I was referring to how bad such polls are at evaluating the talents of individuals and teams. I was talking about neither Chris, nor Deron. I do not think that Greg Oden is a great center because he's injured, nor would I think he wasn't great because he suffered a tweaked knee provided he was playing well before. If he was great and got injured, I'd still think he was great. In reality, however, he's yet to develop, I think, and injuries are part of the reason, draft position aside. Usage plays a role in how much a player affects a team, agreed. However, is the question who made a bigger difference last year? If it is, Deron, hands down, but I don't think that's the question. I read the question as who is better at their job when they are doing it. In that case, history says it's Chris. http://www.hornets247.com/blog/2009/12/09/fun-with-numbers-and-venn-diagrams/ Here is a post Ryan did about point guards. It was from about 10 months ago, during last season but not very far in. It provides some data that you might find interesting. The pictures are not appearing (perhaps due to the recent site update), but the text makes it fairly clear what is being said.

Matt
Matt

here is a thought... The GM survey is taken by the NBA of all of the GM's in the league, who for the most part, have the most in depth knowledge of all of the players in the league. All of the talent scouts in the NBA report to their respective GM's, and while some are much better than others (Minnesota's for example) Those guys are the ones that know the most about the talent in the league. Now in regards to best point guard, Deron Williams and Chris Paul are two different type of players, but CP3's continued flirtation with injury is what drops him on the GM list. True, in '08 he took the hornets to the Western Conference Finals, but since then he has been continuously injured and his team has gotten worse in the two years since. In that same span, Deron has played at a consistent All Star level with comparable stats for a team that has been at the top tier of the loaded western conference. In the playoffs, with a Boozer playing with an injured rib cage, and without AK-47 or Okur, he went into Denver and put up HISTORIC numbers of 33 and 14 in a road playoff win. That hasn't been done before, never! When his team needed him to step up to fill a void, he did just that. That is probably what the GM's are looking at in this survey, Deron has never been out with a serious injury, and can elevate his game to a level that few players in this league can match when their team truly needs them to. So for this year's survey, I am fine with Deron being voted above CP3, because he was better last season. What has CP3 done in the past two years that would justify him as the best point guard in the league? his team has gotten worse each year, either due to his lack of playing or loss of talent, but his team has gotten worse, and that is a fact.

mike poland
mike poland

Deron Williams any day!! dont talk bout records, stats, who won more games, tell me what GM from nets etc. know about deron or chris leadership?? but still Deron right now is better then CP. 1-deron 2chris/rondo 3nash

JCS
JCS

Get real, poland. The only thing the GM for the Jersey Shore knows about is GTL. Coaches know the game and records, stats, and wins are all important.

Keef
Keef

Wins are the most important stat in any sport (even invididual awards go to players whose teams win - for example, MVP almost always goes to the best player on the winningest team), and CP3, for all his flair, has struggled in that most important category - especially against Deron Williams. Complain all you want; Paul doesn't deserve to be regarded as the best point guard in the NBA.

JazzMan
JazzMan

Really? How can a guy play half a season and be considered the best in the NBA. Not to mention the fact CP3 gets owned everytime he plays against Deron. Deron's team has made the playoff's more, won more games. And I love the fact that you call out the GM's for having losing records. Kinda like the Hornets last year??? Good luck in the Lottery this year.

42
42

The same way Usain Bolt is the fastest in the world even when though he may be tied down do a chair, that's how a guy can play half a season and still be the best. And a team being great doesn't mean each member is great. The last guy on the Lakers' bench isn't as good as Paul or Williams for instance. Right? Anyone who wants to debate the point, let's do so. Bringing up irrelevant facts do anything to advance things in any way. To be clear: My point is that the poll is bogus to begin with. Both guys are good, and no one thus far has come up with what it means to be 'good'. KG was good before Boston, right? Even though he didn't win? Polls produce things like #5 in front of Michigan before they lost to Appalachian state a few years ago, or the #2 in front of Ohio State this year in NCAA football. The NBA MVP is another such product and that thing is wholly inaccurate at least in terms of reflecting the name.

JazzMan
JazzMan

Speaking of irrelevant facts. How about comparing college football rankings to the NBA. But hey, Wake Forest is better in baseball than Illinios so of course Chris Paul's 45 games a year is better than Deron Williams. Doesn't being able to stay healthy and play the whole season matter in determining who is better? Is Greg Oden a top 5 Center, by your logic he would be.

Keef
Keef

"The same way Usain Bolt is the fastest in the world even when though he may be tied down do a chair, that’s how a guy can play half a season and still be the best." According to that reasoning, if I missed half of my classes in college, I would still be the best student and deserve an A and a scholarship.

jazzLand
jazzLand

I don't know what category you guys talking about. The only reason Chris Paul became the Darling of nba was because of Katrina. He is flushy but fragile as hell. Williams has almost as many assist as fragile Chris Paul (injury prone) Williams is wayyyyyyyyyyyyy much better shooter than Chrisyyyy your boy Williams is way better parameter defender. Does Chrisyyyy ever dare to guard Kobe? in his dreams!!!! right As for that idiot that said that with boozer and Korver out, what will Williams do? The analysis of so called fun and experts really doesn't make sense. Whoever play with Chrissyyy, they perform because of Chrissyyy. On the other hand, who ever plays with Williams, do will because they are good...... flauddddddddd. Another point of leadership and talent.. do you Hornet fun remember how Denver kicked your guys butt. beat you guys by 50 or so points... shameful. Billup owned your chrissy. Look what happened when Willaims faced the same adversity. With two starters gone, he kicked not only Billup's ass but the whole team. Good luck with Chrissy for the two more years of renting where he will be hurt half of the time while Deron Williams will take us closer, closer to the ultimate goal............ who is better Hornets!!!

Buzz
Buzz

Williams is so not a better perimeter defender, thats just fantasy. and the 'Does Chrisssyyyyyyyy ever dare to guard Kobe?' argument makes no sense, why would he? he gives up 6 inches and about 30pounds to him. I'm not sure that means CP's not as good a defender. It makes more sense for deron to guard kobe coz he is closer to his size. Rajon Rondo was on the all defensive team last year, but you're not going to see him guard LeBron. Whats more CP was all defensive the year before, i'm not sure if dero can say that. I can't wait til we smack you guys this year, its going to be so sweet. OMG I feel dirty just responding to your post.........

QueenBee
QueenBee

And look how childish you are. Chrissy? LOL! Come on. You can do better than that. Thats how you can tell when a fan is mad. They try to change another players name. LOL. No one is here calling Deron "Deronisha" or "Deronika". We don't even call him what some others call him "Duh-Ron". Remember when Team USA visited the Oprah show after the 2008 Olympics? Oprah was naming the players and she called Deron "Duh-Ron". LOL. Deron looked pissed. Oh and Dahntay Jones was a great defender on Paul. Even played a bit dirty in that series but Chauncey and Rasual Butler were paired up. Pay attention. Just because Chauncey and Paul are point guards doesn't mean they guarded each other.

JCS
JCS

Riddle me this jazzLand: if Deron is so much better than Chris, then how come he's always ranked lower in efficiency stats?

Joe Gerrity
Joe Gerrity

JCS said efficiency stats, not general stats. Your response really doesn't mean much.

JazzMan
JazzMan

Easy. Because NO doesn't run an offense, and just lets him dribble the ball around and doesn't involve anyone else in the offense.

James Grayson
James Grayson

Long-Term Memory Lose: A Pre-requisite of every NBA General manager.

BillyHo
BillyHo

maybe that just shows how all-round deron williams is... he has no weaknesses and is strong across the board...

Buzz
Buzz

I don't think anyone is saying that Deron isn't strong in many areas, he is a great point guard. But if Deron is strong in many areas then CP3 is stronger in these areas based on the votes he got with the survey. Surely that makes him the better player in the eyes of the GMs. It just seems weird.....

Jonny
Jonny

I thought this was funny "Well half you guys have losing teams. So clearly you should shut up!" So I guess New Orleans should "shut up!" too right? right? ;)

QueenBee
QueenBee

Yeah, his stock would have dropped in many GM's eyes but it sure as heck didn't stop GM's from ringing the Hornets phone off the hook trying to get him now did it? LMAO.

Buzz
Buzz

exactly right!!