Hornets Blow 25 Point Lead in Loss to the Lakers. Everyone is Sad.

Published: March 6, 2013

Monty Williams

That’s the narrative after the Hornets blew a 19 point lead at home over the Lakers. Monty Williams

On twitter, in the comments of the Game On, in text messages to me. It’s all about Monty Williams–in particular how it’s his fault for the loss.

Except that it’s not only Monty’s fault.

Yes he’s a large part of the collapse, but he’s also the main reason the Hornets built a 25 point lead. We can complain and yell about those 7 minutes of madness where the Lakers went on a 20-0 run but the blame needs to be shared.

Jodie freaking Meeks went off from deep in the 4th quarter hitting 4. Kobe did his Kobe thing. Gordon and Vasquez went 0-11 for zero points.

And then, of course, there is Monty. Keeping Davis on the bench so that Lopez could guard Howard is borderline inexcusable. You have to give Howard credit that while he wasn’t scoring in the 4th quarter, he was making his presence felt on offense. But not enough that Monty kept Lopez in. Not only that but Lopez was getting wrecked on the pick and roll in the 4th when the Lakers ran it at him.

And then there was the change in the offense during those last 7 minutes. For the first 41 minutes of the game the Hornets ran a fantastic, slow paced half court offense. It really was just that good. Not based entirely on the pick and roll the offense was free flowing with pindowns, screens, cuts and curls to create open looks. I’m not going to go into too much detail because I’m going to be writing a future post or two about it, and I think a lot of people want to rant.

But with 7 minutes left Monty switched back to the pick and roll and isolation offense we’ve seen–and hated–all year long. The Hornets are not a good jump shooting team and late in the 4th quarter it’s not exactly something you want to rely on. The Hornets did tonight and only put up 9 points total after scoring 93 in three quarter before the change.

There is also the lack of a playmaker on the team. We all want Gordon to be a closer so badly, but he presented us with a big no show tonight. Gordon has to hit that layup or at least draw a foul with 52 seconds left. Same with Vasquez, who has hit a bunch of clutch shots this season. Fault the play calling all you want, but that could easily not matter if Gordon or Vasquez hit their shots.

And then there is the 4th quarter defense. Disgusting. The Hornets defended well for the first 3 periods. And then seemed to break out the bull-fighter-olay-defense. The second a Laker got into the paint the Hornets just gave them space to do what they wanted. The Lakers scored 12 points in the paint in the 4th after only scoring 16 total in the first half.

I’m sure there will be a lot of rehashing this game in the next few days. But tonight, feel free to rant and give us your take in the comments.


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  1. Michael McNamara

    March 6, 2013 at 11:22 pm

    This is the exact reason I was so against the Lopez signing. Sure, he is a fine player and is playing above his contract, but Monty is obsessed with playing the “true center”, the “7-footer” as opposed to just playing the best player. Even with Smith out, Lopez should be a 15-18 minute a night guy. You spread the court with AD and Ryno and beg the Lakers to beat you with Dwight on the other end.

    Kobe goes 3-3 as the pick and roll balhhandler tonight, as all three times they ran it at Lopez and he switched over. If AD is covering Dwight in the 4th, yeah maybe Dwight has some weight on him, but who cares? Could the Lakers have come back going to Dwight in the post? Of course not.

    I love Monty’s attitude, faith, and passion but he has some things to learn with regard to strategy in this game. Plain and simple.

    • 504ever

      March 7, 2013 at 9:42 am

      The Laker’s couldn’t have come back going to Howard in the post? Really? How do you know? Kick out for threes? And one baskets? And maybe there are good reasons Davis wasn’t in the game at the end.

      But in the bigger picture, what sickens me is the scapegoating by fans on this site. This team lets leads go in several games and it’s the fault of a guy not on the floor? One or two players in particular? This entire team is young, hasn’t learned how to win, and lacks any player who can create his own shot. Those are the problems and most are not going away anytime soon. They will take time to solve. There, I said it.

      And what about when these same players and coaches were helping the Hornets to a 25 point lead earlier in the game? How many of you were criticizing them then? What about how amazing the Laker’s played in the 4th Quarter? Where is the balance?

      • Hank

        March 7, 2013 at 10:37 am

        Thats the thing it wasnt the same players that blew the lead in the end. Two of our best 3 players in that game didnt play in the fourth. Obviously we couldnt control the Rivers injury but that was some of the best basketball Davis had played all season. At least give him a few minutes to show what he could do against dwight because now clearly hes frustrated with the team after it was reported that his dad stormed out of the family room yelling on the phone. The last thing we want is another star that doesnt want to be here

      • macs21

        March 7, 2013 at 5:59 pm

        Loving the attitude here 504.
        Some guy called Kobe went off for a 40 point near tripple double..

        Also, this season isn’t about winning. The higher we get in the draft the better.

        What makes me sad, is the fact that I haven’t seen anyone suggest in a single comment that maybe Monty is chucking players out there so they can work on their weaknesses. Sure, you might argue that practice is a better time to do that but in a season where your main goal is to improve and grow for the future then why not take every opportunity you can get. Lopez isn’t great in the P n R so throw him out there against a physically dominant Centre and 2 of the highest B ball IQ guards in the NBA. Geez, maybe he’ll learn something. He’s already shown HUGE progress this year along with the General and we might be able to flip them for something much more useful in the off-season.
        Gordon has the talent to be an off the dribble closer so maybe that’s why Monty goes back to him in crunch time. Sure he’s failing more than he’s succeeding but in the comtext of the season who really cares. He’s just trying to get his reps up so he can make better decisions in the future WHEN THE GAMES ACTUALLY MATTER.

        People have to get away from this blaming the coach or blaming one or two players business. Maybe think about something more than just the game you’re watching your team struggle through. I realise it’s frustrating watching the team lose, but it would be much more frustrating to wtach Gordon flail away at the end of games and Lopez play bad pick n roll D next season when we’re gunning for a 6 seed.

      • 504ever

        March 7, 2013 at 8:52 pm


        Yeah, someone who sees the big picture. Finally!

    • lsutigers33

      March 7, 2013 at 10:34 am

      Not signing lopez for the value isn’t the problem. Monty should have pulled Lopez and played small and at the same time, we don’t have anyone who can play D.

      strategy and defense is the issue.

      In reality, we don’t want to win. if this happened next year or the year after, I would probably say, WTF and want Montys head.

      • Michael McNamara

        March 7, 2013 at 10:41 am

        I agree- it’s Monty’s fault, not Lopez’s. Sorry I didnt make that more clear.

        Monty is stubborn and plays true positions. Bringing Lopez in allowed Monty to stay in his comfort zone. Again, not Lopez’s fault

  2. jsl05

    March 6, 2013 at 11:26 pm

    Sad? That’s it?

    • Jake Madison

      March 7, 2013 at 4:38 pm

      I couldn’t really use some of the words I wanted to.

  3. jsl05

    March 6, 2013 at 11:28 pm

    Before everyone starts hating on Monty (as they did on HR), let’s all remember what Gravy, Chief, J-Smitty, and R-Lo were before they got here and what they are now.

    • Hank

      March 7, 2013 at 10:38 am

      Those guys have still contributed to leading us to the 4th worst record in the league. We need upgrades.

      • jsl05

        March 7, 2013 at 6:48 pm

        That’s absolutely true, but those guys’ trade values have risen so that we can get better players.

  4. kwilly

    March 6, 2013 at 11:30 pm

    Yes the loss was Monty’s fault. A good coach figures out a way to get a talented player on the floor. The Lakers are an old slow team. Anderson could have played small forward and guarded world peace while Davis played power forward or vice versa. The Hornets went over 6 minutes without scoring yet he leaves the same players on the floor. Wouldn’t a good coach get his best player on the floor under those circumstances? It is not just this game. He is consistently leaving Davis on the bench during fourth quarters. I think Hornets fans have to accept the fact that the Hornets will never be an elite team with Monty Williams as coach. Much has been written on this site about the Hornets tanking. What is the point in getting a high draft pick if the coach isn’t going to play him, especially down the stretch?

  5. Chuck

    March 6, 2013 at 11:35 pm

    I remember earlier in the season someone (Michael? Ryan?) posted something saying that winning wasn’t the *top* priority this season. It may have even been after the last weird Lakers game. But I think that idea rang true today. I’m sure Monty knows he could have and maybe should have inserted AD for Lopez. But he didn’t want to put him in there and a) subject him to the physical pounding of guarding Dwight when physically he can’t do it yet, or b)get dominated by Dwight and lose some confidence. I personally don’t agree with that philosophy, but if that’s his idea, then he’s operating in a way that says losses aren’t the worst thing this season, which I understand.

    Ping pong balls, yo.

  6. Chuck

    March 6, 2013 at 11:39 pm

    Also, let’s not forget that Monty is still a really inexperienced coach. Inexperience leads to mistakes. He had one year with a legitimate team, then last year the team was an absolute disaster that he somehow got something out of, now this year we’re still one of the worst in the league.

    Remember how Doc Rivers was almost run out of Boston (mostly by Bill Simmons) before KG and Ray Allen came aboard because he couldn’t figure out a consistent rotation? Now he’s widely acknowledged as one of the best in the league. These things take time. 3 years seems like a long time as a coach, but really Monty hasn’t had a consistent roster and is still getting to know a lot of his very young players.

    • jsl05

      March 6, 2013 at 11:54 pm

      Excellent point. I didn’t know a whole lot about the Doc situation, but I remember that the Celtics were terrible; and I didn’t understand why the didn’t get rid of him. A lot like this.

  7. mojart

    March 6, 2013 at 11:55 pm

    Im very upset of the result…sad also that rivers got hurt in the process as well….these lose falls on monty and monty alone….he is the coach and true he is not the one on the court shooting and rebounding but he is the one instructing our players what to do on every single play on the court…he don’t make the necessary adjustments when the lakers are getting closer and closer….where is AD?why is ROLO still on the floor as well as mason in that deciding 4th quarter?you gotta put your best players whatever happens and AD is your best player!hope monty learns from his mistakes and make adjustment….i think we got the win….still i believe in this team…future is bright….painful lose but we need to move on…

  8. WhoDatPelican96

    March 7, 2013 at 12:00 am

    I used to just dislike vasquez’s playing style. But after watching him blatenly take the game in his own hands, and jack up floater after floater, I hate him. I don’t care about how much he likes new Orleans, I don’t like him. He needs to go this offseason.

    • mateor

      March 7, 2013 at 3:42 pm

      He did that in Memphis in the playoffs that year ZBo was basically unguardable.

      Mysteriously, they gave him away that off season for basically nothing.


      • WhoDatPelican96

        March 7, 2013 at 9:30 pm

        Thank you! A point no one that is on the ridiculous Vasquez bandwagon seems to understand

  9. Michael Pellissier

    March 7, 2013 at 12:00 am

    It’s not just Lopez on pick and rolls.. when we double on the sideline, he’s always on the back end of the rotation, and the ball is inevitably worked to the backside corner 3, where he’s been unable to rotate all year. Often, he doesn’t even move. I understand he doesn’t want to give up an offensive rebound to the big guy, but isn’t it the role of someone else to slide down as Lopez gets out to contest the shot? This has been happening game after game

  10. nola331

    March 7, 2013 at 12:00 am

    The Hornets dismal performance since the All-Star break has provided a sufficient basis to question Monty Williams coaching competency. In addition, Monty has seemed emotionally disconnected from the glaring problems of his team. As a Hornets fan I have to say “enough is enough” – at least with Byron Scott it was clear each loss caused him pain! For me, Monty’s decision to sit Anthony Davis during the 4th quarter is the final straw. It’s time for Tom Benson to begin a process of looking for a new coach.

  11. jsl05

    March 7, 2013 at 12:04 am

    If we were to hire a new head coach, who would it be? My favorite candidates are Mike Malone and James Borrego. (Note: I am in favor of keeping Monty.)

    • nola331

      March 7, 2013 at 1:02 am

      Avery Johnson – a New Orleans native with lots of experience & passion for the game

      • plaayahata

        March 7, 2013 at 12:06 pm

        if i could thumbs down 1,000,000,000 times i would

  12. mateor

    March 7, 2013 at 12:57 am

    You guys won’t be as mad when we are starting Otto Porter instead of Cody Zeller.

    Let’s see how Monty does with a team expected to win before we send him to the unemployment office. (and by that I mean the Houston Rockets or the Trail Blazers who would hire him before his bags were packed.)

    • plaayahata

      March 7, 2013 at 12:05 pm

      look how well he did with cp3 and a bunch of scrubs his first season. Imagine if he had the Blazers squad

  13. Snow

    March 7, 2013 at 1:09 am

    In the great words of the great Charles Barkley the fourth quarter was “Turrrrible”

  14. fraunpetri

    March 7, 2013 at 1:19 am

    Seriously though. A 20 to 0 run. We have 5 players on the floor who can’t stop two players with 5 fouls each and can’t get more than one shot to fall out of 12. Monty has more to learn as a coach, but if you think that swapping Lopez for Davis is going to solve this game, you’re mistaken. There were missed dunks, 10 foot uncontested jump shots and some of the sloppiest play this group has ever had. Maybe It’s decipline or lack of leadership but a coach can only bring the horses to water, they have to drink. It was a full on meltdown and without a proper leader among the players on the team here we are. It was horrible to watch as there were such highs and such lows but I’ll say whoever we sign as a max player next better lead this team and care in a way Gordon never will. I hope for the 4 year plan as we’ve got a long way to go.

  15. mojart

    March 7, 2013 at 1:36 am

    wow..almost everybody in nola.com/hornets wants monty to be fired and ROLO gone next season

    Davis comment on his benching in the 4th Q
    “You want to be in that situation,’’ Davis said. “We’re going to learn from this situation right here from watching the film. We have to do a better job of closing at the end games and holding leads. That’s something we’re going to get better at.

  16. isthisyourhomeworklarry

    March 7, 2013 at 3:01 am

    I disagree with the argument that Gordon doesn’t care. He’s the most emotive player on the team when he doesn’t get a call or when the Hornets blow an opportunity. I like his passion (despite the occasional ‘hero ball’ mentality.)

    Honestly, who cares that we lost this game? This was arguably the most promising game of the season for several reasons: 1. Gordon showed that he can actually take over a game in spurts while playing against an elite two-guard. 2. Rivers showed an unprecedented amount of confidence and scoring touch (and now maybe he can learn how to lay it up with his left hand for a change). 3. More ping pong balls.

  17. bywas2008hornets225

    March 7, 2013 at 3:24 am

    U guys are insane lol jk but seriously tho monty wanted to lose this game or didnt care, lately he has been leaving ad buried on the bench even before the injury, look at the patterns, your best players on the bench in crunch time. that spells “let me see what you can do for a)the off season or next season, B) Lottery Balls BABY!

  18. NOEngineer

    March 7, 2013 at 5:41 am

    Ref-assisted tank. Several dubious calls, the most glaring being the out-of-bounds on Gordon with less than a minute left. Many dubious no-calls, including one on that same play and two on the same fast-break a few minutes earlier. The in-bounds play from Anderson that was never properly replayed on CST, but probably bogus that let to the T on Monty during a time-put. Howard playing the entire second half called for only one foul, despite hitting Aminu in the face and blocking Lopez 3 or 4 times. Typical Lakers home game, of which they play about 70 a year….

    If we aren’t tanking, then Vasquez and Gordon are the worst 4th-quarter guard combo I have ever seen. I hope we trade Vasquez, Lopez, and Gordon for faster players who can handle crunch time.

  19. Section120fan

    March 7, 2013 at 7:10 am

    Yes Monty is a horrible coach and I’ve been saying it all season. Wins and losses are important along with player development. Monty and Dell have done a horrible job at this for 3 years. The two losses this week are completely unacceptable. Hopefully this will open up Mr. Bensons eyes and he will make some management changes.

    • plaayahata

      March 7, 2013 at 12:02 pm

      You need to stop watching Bobcats Games and blaming DEll and Monty for there losses. You must want Shinn back and Bower guys who gave posey a crazy deal and traded collision for ariza

  20. Bigeauz

    March 7, 2013 at 7:47 am

    After sleeping on it, I’m a little calmer. Monty says he didn’t put AD on Dwight to spare his shoulder more wear and tear. In the long run, I can get behind that. But he has to see that RoLo isn’t the answer for us. If he’s starting for us again next year then we’ve got some big issues. This is supposed to be Lopez’s role/matchup on the team. He doesn’t stretch anything, he’s supposed to be the banger and paint protector, which he just didn’t do. Len just got much more attractive looking to me tonight. Just an awful night though. Went from the game of the year (maybe tied with the Clippers game) to the lowest point of the season. Ugh.

    • plaayahata

      March 7, 2013 at 11:58 am

      I completely agree, He looked slow, scared, and clueless out there, and He clogged are lane every time we tried to attack the basket.

  21. Nate

    March 7, 2013 at 8:17 am

    I didn’t get to see this one, AGAIN! (living in OK sucks when you’re a N.O. fan)

    I DID see the highlights and for the most part, they left me thoroughly depressed.

    Light in the tunnel: Austin Rivers performance, 1st half offense.

    Other than that: 20-0 run by Lakers ending the game, nuff said.

  22. Pelicancan

    March 7, 2013 at 8:33 am

    One additional set of shoulders to lay blame, and this is not directed to anyone on this board who likely supports the team and makes it to as many as time and money will allow, is the crowd. This team gets no pop from the home crowd and it felt like the Lakers were feeding off a large and vocal Lakers fan base last night. I think it’s fair to say there are at least 5 close home games this year that could have swung our way if there were more folks in the arena. Yes, these guys are professionals and they should perform at peak performance at all times. But it is also an emotional, momentum driven sport and a boisterous fan base pushing you forward undeniably creates an edge. The Hornets don’t have that. We barely draw more than Sacramento where the ownership and stability are the exact opposite of our situation. This is rarely talked about publicly, but you know the players talk about it; heck, even Monty’s hinted at it. I really hope the re-branding and better play on the court draw more folks next year.

    • Nithenz

      March 7, 2013 at 11:34 am

      Been telling this for some season now…who would like to resign to play in front of barely 10K people almost every night…sad…

  23. Nate

    March 7, 2013 at 8:38 am

    I can agree with Monty on benching AD.

    The Lakers HAVE SOMETHING TO PLAY FOR. The Playoffs.
    We are playing for development of young players/team chemistry.

    We don’t need a major injury to our franchise cornerstone.

    • Nithenz

      March 7, 2013 at 11:36 am

      tjose are lame excuses for me… That he wouldnt put a 225 Davis on Dwigth… last 2 minutes were Lopez on Kobe… I prefer my chances with a Dwight Vs AD than a Kobe Vs Lopez…

      • plaayahata

        March 7, 2013 at 11:55 am

        Nithenz you think Davis would of made a difference, you are crazy, Okafor has a better chance than Davis

      • Andrew Smith

        March 7, 2013 at 1:28 pm

        I understand (but was furious when it was going on) because Monty is a very protective coach especially with Anthony & Austin. When I’m sitting by the bench after every hard foul that Ant takes he calls him over or waves to him to ask if he’s ok. Having Anthony on Dwight with both teams playing hard like it’s the playoffs people are going to be rough, anyway if that shoulder was feeling less than 100% Monty was going to sit him for Davis’s protection.

  24. NolaHog

    March 7, 2013 at 9:55 am

    I was running late last night, and decided to watch the game at home instead of going to the arena. So glad I wasn’t there to watch that piece of s#@t game. I’m sure all of the Kobe trolls were screeching with glee. Seriously, though. . . all of the New Orleanians who cheer for the Lakers can get f#@ked!

    Oh Mike Malone, where have you gone???

  25. Nola86

    March 7, 2013 at 11:30 am

    To all the homers who want Monty Williams to stay stop smoking that pipe because this guy and his coaching staff have to go.Monty hates to develop rookies Collison,Thornton and Pondexter from his first two years as coach to the current rookies Davis,Rivers and Miller.He’s have legit front office and ownership but is not man enough to confront them about the needs of this team.Get rid of this weak poor excuse of a coach.

    • plaayahata

      March 7, 2013 at 11:51 am

      Nola86, How was Vasquez when he came over? Is Thorton starting for the Kings? Collison is on his third team. Pondexter is on a team where all he has to do is stand in the corner and play D. So he got rid of the one dimensional players and got an upgrade for every single one. You want Avery Johnson, what rookie did he Develop?

      • Nola86

        March 7, 2013 at 11:58 am

        He had a chance to develop them but gave up on the them.Thornton ended up on a bad team,Pondexter haves injures and Vasguez was not a rookie but via trade and Grevis it’s just pure luck Monty didn’t have nothing to do Vasguez success the fella just seen the light.Do anyone in their right mind think Monty will be coach of the year someday get real.We maybe would still have Byron Scott if it was not for the previous penny pinching owner Shinn and the lunkhead GM Bower.

  26. Nola86

    March 7, 2013 at 11:31 am

    Avery Johnson come on down!!

  27. plaayahata

    March 7, 2013 at 11:46 am

    Its time to put some of the bad comments to rest. Monty did a great job coaching this game. If you look at are roster after Gordon and mason who on the team can shot inside the arc? Who on are team is consistent enough to come down the court and get to there spot and convert? And last they lost this game with turning the ball over, and becoming stagnant on D. There where plenty of plays where Lopez missed lay ups. Plenty of plays where Gordon dribbles the ball off of his foot, plenty of plays where Vasquez either picks up his dribble early or passes up a open shot. Monty has no one to go to once these things happen. Which is why he is always saying the team needs to grow and learn from there mistakes. If you could take away Lopez dropping the ball missing layups, and Gordon loosing the ball easily the team would of had 12pts but that’s the way the game is played, and Monty cant make the shots for the guys he put them in the best position to succeed. Just think if Davis was in during the 4th and we still lost. The headline would read “Davis Shots Too Many Jumpers…”

    • Nola86

      March 7, 2013 at 11:59 am

      look who smoking the pipes dang you’re high as the sky.

  28. Nola86

    March 7, 2013 at 12:00 pm

    In Monty we trust yeah right.

  29. hewhorocks

    March 7, 2013 at 1:30 pm

    I’m not sad. I learned a lot watching the game. I think we have a core than can develop into something special. Some points I think were highlighted in the game.

    1) GV is better than I’ve given him credit for. He’s a B not a C.
    2) Austin Rivers could develop into a solid rotational player given time
    3) EG is a talent but not a leader. Sadly we dont have a starter who is a both a leader and has the talent and credibility to assume the mantle so EG will continue to try to assume a role he can not currently suitably make.

    I think that if you can get shut out over 5+ min you are not getting value out of a max contract.

    • WhoDatPelican96

      March 7, 2013 at 3:00 pm

      Wow. So what were you doing in the 4th quarter? While Vasquez was missing floater after floater and playing very selfishly.

  30. hewhorocks

    March 7, 2013 at 1:34 pm

    I liked Byron Scott. Bower was a lunkhead.

    That is all.

  31. BDavis

    March 7, 2013 at 4:47 pm

    There hasn’t been a shot at the playoffs for some time now so I feel that fans are upset because this was one of the last reasons for them to watch. Apparently, nobody want’s to watch our team stumble and fall, even if it’s obvious that Monty pushed them down. Why would he do that? I used to let my son fall on his butt when he was learning to walk just to see how he would react. Obviously it’s not how Monty thought they would finish. 0 – 11 by two of our best players and our defense failing, but now Coach, and players, know what changes need to be made moving forward. Austin hurt, and he benched Davis to let some of the Vet players finish because they should be able to do just that. They didn’t, and Davis’ Dad can get mad all he wants, but raising a team is a game of chess, not checkers. Hurt as I am about the loss I’m excited about what will come of it!

  32. come on pelican

    March 7, 2013 at 5:00 pm

    I don’t know all of the X’s and O’s of basketball, but I’ll never forget sitting in the stands in the Arena in 2007 when Kobe completed his 4th consecutive 50 point game and hundreds of locals cheered every time he scored. It’s sickening to lose to the Lakers regardless of the circumstances. However, Monty’s reason for sitting AD23 at the end of this game makes perfect sense to me — especially when you see he’s still wearing some type of wrap or brace on his shoulder. Maybe Monty’s not the very best option available, but I do know (1) it’s hard to attract quality head-coaching candidates to New Orleans, (2) another NBA team will scoop up Monty in a second if he becomes available, and (3) Monty wasn’t on the floor last night when the Lakers ended the game with a 20-0 run.

  33. mano negra

    March 7, 2013 at 5:04 pm

    simmer down…i have four words that might help to ease the pain, if only a little. more. ping. pong. balls.

  34. Nola86

    March 7, 2013 at 6:42 pm

    Ten years ago there was no team here and every moron think they know whats best for this franchise.Get real fools this fan base is fake just like the Saints nothing but bandwagoners.Real fans support their team but if you don’t like whats going on you’ve the right to say if a coach should be fired or not cry like a revire once you here someone have a opinion on the team or the coaching so stop tuckinmg your johnson between your legs and face reality this team stinks and with no change it wont get any better.

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