Some Hornets fans and ESPN talking heads be smoking crack to say this team is going be lottery team again ya'll can K.M.A .If you've ownership that wants results now not next year.It's insane that people rush to judgement about the teams plans and the season has not started yet.
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In the NO Podcast Episode 73: The Big Day Approaches
Michael and I present to you our Big Boards – the prospects as we see them – and fully expect mountains of vitriol to be heaped upon us. You hear us Lillardians? We are not afraid of you!!!
We close with a few potential trades that seem to be out there (Deng or Noah or Houston’s picks) and give some thoughts on the the type of free agents we’d like to see brought in based on players taken in the draft at 10.
3 more days!
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Nice podcast, but the shot you took at me late in the program was disingenuous. I didn't JUST advocate that we're going after DERON WILLIAMS. I also said that we now have flexibility to make a move for a Jennings, Gay, Williams, etc. And I had previously expressed a little surprise at how you guys poo poo'd any thought of the Hornets being aggressive THIS offseason in attempt to try to get our big 3 in place for this October. Jennings/Gordon/Davis or Gordon/Gay/Davis or Williams/Gordon/Davis (or some other reasonable addition) is not too far-fetched to ponder over and consider IMO.
Rumors are Rockets could move Kevin Martin to Minny for #18. What about 14 and 18 for 10? Or would you do 16 and 18 for #10?
Good work fellas, you've really been on point in providing lots of content in the build up to the draft.
What do you think about this trade? Since going for the rockets 14 and 16 would be too much and the celtics 21 and 22 too little, what about this? Celtics-14 Rockets-10,22 Hornets-16,21 That means we can go get a Leonard than Teague or go lamb/Marshall and then sully?
16 is too far of a drop for me. I think you have to stay at 10 to see if someone drops. If no one you like drops, then you can trade down but I say for 14 and 21. (2nd rd picks might be in play as well) ..... But I'm not a fan b/c what if you trade down b/c you like marshall zeller lamb and sullinger but they all get picked from 10 to 13? Then youre kinda screwed. In short, too risky. Take the guy you want when you have the chance.
Love the concept, but wonder if 16 and 21 are enough. The problem is the players 10-20 are so evenly ranked (to me) that I can see Marshall and Sullinger both gone before 21, Marshall gone before 14, and Leonard gone before 14. So you are left with Sullinger at 16, which is fine if you really wanted him all along and you think you can get him at 16. But who do you take at 21? Teague is a reach, so you may be left with Quincy Miller and other players who have never come close to living up to their potential. The 5th tier is big step back from the first four tiers, and losing a shot at Marshall (Leonard, Lamb, etc) may be too much to give up to get the bonus 21/22 pick. This is even more true if you can get back into the end of the 1st round some other way to get Teague or some one else.
Honestly, I would pretty much give anything up in a trade besides Gordon and Davis to move up to five and get Kidd-Gilchrist if he's still there. We have Davis, who one day will be able to be the best player on a contender, and Gordon, who when healthy, can be a second best player on a contender. There is no way MKG couldn't be your third option on a finals team. He, like Davis, will be able to immediately impact the defensive end. His rookie year he'll probably be everything Trevor Ariza was, but with more intangibles and drive.
I believe the Hornets have a high quality starter at SG in Gordon (hopefully), and Skynet will develop into a high quality starting PF. So my choices at 10, assuming we keep it, will come from the following positions PG and C because I don't see an SF worth picking at 10. I see the draft as having four tiers that might apply to the Hornets at 10. The tiers are: 1. Davis 2. Robinson, MKG, Beal 3. Barnes, Drummond, Lillard, Waiters 4. 10+ players. (If any of the players in the first three tiers but Drummond fell to 10, I'd pick him.) The good news is it looks like Detroit at 9 will take Henson, who is a so similar to Skynet I doubt we want him. So we have our choice out of my 4th tier at 10. I'll say upfront Rivers isn't an option for me at 10. To me, he is a player without a position. He can't shoot or score well enough to play SG, and his 0.9 assist/turnover ratio in college says he can't be a PG either. He isn't good at any one thing. So he is a generalist guard with the physical attributes of a tweener guard. In other words everything about Rivers screams not good enough to play PG or SG to me. So for me I want Marshall or Zeller at 10, which is ironic because I prefer Duke and Duke players over UNC and UNC players the overwhelming majority of the time. I'll also take dark horse pick Sullinger at 10. It's easy to guess that Sullinger's "medical red flag" is something new. If we get the 2010-11 version of Sullinger, because his injury isn't permanent, we will all say Dell stole him. [Oh my god, I wrote this while listening and finished typing this paragraph just before you both said your #6 player on your draft board. And I don't think Sullinger has to have surgery!] Now the crazy part. I think we get back into the draft at the end of the 1st round, possibly begining of the 2nd round. Maybe we trade Jack for the pick (if we draft a PG); maybe we buy a pick. My guys to look for there are Miles Plumlee, a C, (I said I like Duke guys) and Jeff Taylor, a SF. Both are athletic Seniors with a good start on an NBA skillset, and Plumlee started on a NCAA championship team. If we could come out of this draft with three 1st rounders like Skynet, Marshall/Lillard, and Plumlee/Taylor, that is three quality guys at three different positions. I would expect them all to be in our top 10 players from Day 1. Skynet a likely high quality starter, Marshall/Lillard a fringe starter, and Plumlee/Taylor a quality 2nd teamer.
What information tells you that Rivers can't score? That seems in direct contrast to everything else I've read/seen. Admittedly in the past I've payed little attention to college basketball so I'm not great at seeing how a player's skills transfer to the NBA. I've also never paid this much attention to the draft since were usually not very high in it. Otherwise, (per usual) I think you're spot on!
Z, I watched Rivers play! He is an inefficient scorer who gets his points by being a volume shooter. The high volume of shots makes up for his inefficient shooting. Even though he often drives close to the rim he has a hard time finishing there. His outside shooting is also weak. I bet you can find numerical analysis of his college season somewhere.
My big board above matches your comments almost perfectly I think :) although I'm not high on plumlee at all.
My quinticential long winded comment: There's been a lot of hype for us to get Marshall but I remember earlier there was a lot of conversation that seems to be forgotten about how much EJ10 needs the ball in his hands to be effective. If Gordon is running the pick and rolls, slashing, and running isos then what kind of point guard do you want, one who can't knock down a shot or one who can catch and shoot? I'm not saying its the worst thing ever, certainly Rondo and Peirce were able to work that same problem out but to me Jack is perfect next to Gordon. I like George Hill there too but I don't think the difference between Hill and Jack is significant enough for the upgrade. Remember Hill and Collison battled over starting rights. With the discussion of drafting a point guard, remember two seasons ago Jack led the second unit but would often play during crunch time as the two next to CP3. He can play the off guard without the ball in his hands. He and Vasquez can play at the same time. I would love to see us trade up Evan Fournier (sp?) or Quincy Miller. In general I hate Free Agents who weren't good until their contract year. Dragic isn't the point guard of the future for any team, he's a great backup. Lowry has the look of the player that will get a fat contract and then do nothing (remember Posey?). Ryan Anderson without Dwight is Channing Frye so good luck with that. I wouldn't kill our cap for contracts that will walk right as we're trying to compete for Noah or Deng. I like both players but the notion that "Cap room is there to be used" is exactly what creates the Okafors, Rashard Lewis', and Amare's of the league. If we've learned anything its that value is important and money needs to be spent scrupulously.
My Big Board for the Hornets: (Not a best available but talent+best fit) 1 A Davis 2 T Robinson 3 M Kidd-Gilchrest 4 H Barnes 5 B Beal 6 D Lillard 7 J Sullinger 8 D Waiters 9 K Marshall 10 T Zeller 11 J Lamb 12 J Henson 13 A Rivers 14 M Leonard 15 R White 16 T Jones ... 46 A Drummond ..... If we dont draft a pg, trade back into the end of the 1st for Marquis Teague!
I'd really like to see us draft Marshall and resign Landry and play fast break basketball all the time with Monty's defense. Oh and Nash is a free agent I'd really like for him to come in and teach Marshall and Vasquez.
Never said Jack is the future I said I like him as a Backup which means he wont start on the playoff team, I said he has leader qualities & is vocal & I wasn't making the argument about who fits better in MIA I was just using Ray as an example of a veteran superstar who will have to take a pay cut to raise his chances to win a ring.
Yes, OKC built through the draft but they had 3 top 5 picks we are not going to get that. Perkins is a leader and a vet on that team he had been to two nba finals with boston. Nash doesn't fit MIA or NYK system.(D'antoni is gone.) Lebron, Wade, and Melo demand the ball too much. Ray allen probably will go to miami, but he is nowhere the same player as Nash. Ray Allen will be James Jones 2.0 in MIA. Ray Allen plays without the ball, Nash controls it. Nash would be perfect fit for Denver/Dallas/Orlando with all their shooters.(Orlando if dwight stays) OKC-Perkins SAS- David Robinson Show me a year when Jack started on a playoff team. Jack is not the future.
Nash knows its late in his career & he may not be in the league much longer & money really doesn't seem to be the main issue for him. if a player says they are willing to play for The Knicks or The Heat they are willing to cut their pay to win now because Im sure they know those teams situation, for example reports say Ray Allen wants to join the Heat now, not because they can offer him the most money, but because he wants the best chance to get a ring & will cut his pay to do so. Nash wont express intrest in a team thats not looking at a title no matter what the pay is. About us building through the draft, it's the first step of a rebuild. OKC built through the draft & it seems they're on the right path & last year only had Fisher(the team was 38-11 when they got him,so it's safe to assume that they where good without him & had the best record in the west)& Mohammad(whom didnt play more than 25min in a game the entire season)as the only players with 10+yrs on the team, also I think Im the only one on this site that likes Jack, I really like him as a backup pg, but he stepped up & played the starter role, I think he's a leader. If you watch their scrimmages & hear him on the court he is very vocal & demanding of his teammates. I dont think it's a "Me first" attitude, we needed a scorer last year with Gordon hurt & Jack had to fill that role when we needed instant scoring & some people look at that as being selfish but at the time he was the best guy for the job & had to do it.
Why not Nash? It wouldn't be his top pick but its better than Phoenix. Lakers/NYK/MIA will not pay enough. I think he ends up in portland, dallas, or pheonix. Schrodinger's Cat you don't know what happens till you open the box. I hate to tell ya'll this but if you plan to build through the draft and get no veterans the team will go south fast. For example, Washington wizards-why Nene/Ariza/Okafor are there good character/leadership, and Sacramento kings will not get better till they find it. I don't doubt Monty but a player talking to a player is going to be more effective than Monty telling everyone. If we do not get leadership on the team basketball purgatory here we come. We need Kaman or Landry back, at least, for a big man vet. Can't find the ropes till someone puts you on them. (I don't consider Jack a leader something about his game screams "me 1st".)
Great podcast, guys. I'm extremely nervous, but in an oddly fun/excited way. I like Marshall at 10, but I think for balance we'd need to sign a scoring big man to put next to Davis (ie, Kaman)...
Change it to...? It is a nice TV. Thomas was on the Pan Am team. They did well and some agreement says 2 players from that team go on the select team. He is one of the two. http://www.katc.com/mobile/news/hornets-lance-thomas-named-to-team-usa-select-team/
I say either draft Marshall at 10 or trade up to #5 and try to get Barnes or MKG as mentioned in the podcast. Rumor has it that the Rockets are after both Sacramento's #5 and Toronto's #8, so we'll have to pounce on that #5 pick if that's something Dell is interested in. Rockets Rumor: Dwight Howard? http://espn.go.com/blog/truehoop/post/_/id/46492/rockets-set-sights-on-moving-up-in-draft
Hoping Meyers Leonard or Andre Drummond fall to #10......if both are gone there's no problem for me taking Rivers at 10......
Adding to Andrew's comment- Top 5 teams in the league: Bulls-Derek Rose Thunder-Russell Westbrook Spurs-Tony Parker Celtics-Rajon Rondo Heat-Can live w/o one b/c they have 3players that put them over the salary cap
Leonard or Drummond? First of all, have you watched Leonard's game? Jason Smith + 1 inch = Leonard. As far as Drummond goes, do we really want to take another Uconn big man (a la Okafor and Armstrong)? How's that working out for us? Lol. Why not gamble with our second pick? Take a shot. Draft Perry Jones III at 10 and we'll have the versatile SF that we NEED in today's NBA. Guys like Drummond, Leornard or Zeller are one dimensional "safe" picks. Little risk, little reward. With a little work, PJIII could play the 3,4, or 5 (in a pinch). And as for Rivers or Marshall, take a look at the NBA champions for the last decade. Tony Parker is the only big time PG to really make a difference.
Lebron James is a point foward always handling the ball. -2012 Jason Kidd-2011 Rajon Rondo-2008 Tony Parker- 2007,2005,2003 Gary "the Glove" Payton-2006(yea he was old) Chauncey Billups_ Detriot 2004 Lakers used the triangle offense point guard isn't as effective.
I'm with George on this one. I disagree with a lot of what has been said by you two. Leonard and Drummond are both prospects that I don't want to see in a Hornets uniform. But it certainty isn't because they are "safe" prospects. They are boom or bust players. They lack the polish to be top players for the next three years, but they have the athletic abilities that GMs love.
That was my hands comment and I'm pumped that it was in the pod cast, glad some one saw and enjoied it!! :D
Trade: Rockets get: Warriors 7th pick, Jarrett Jack, Dorrell Wright Hornets get: Rockets 16th pick, Kyle Lowry Warriors get: Chandler Parsons, 10th pick -Rockets obviously kinda lose, but if they really wanted to move for someone and nothing else was opening up..
I can see that trade going down. It would get us out of having to amnesty Jack, get us a PG and the player I think we should draft (Perry Jones III) should still be there at 14.
Oh my board: 1) Davis 2) Kidd-Gilchrist 3) Beal 4) Robinson 5) Barnes 6) Drummond 7) Lillard 8) Marshall 9) Waiters 10) Rivers 11) Sullinger 12) Henson 13) T. Zeller 14) Lamb 15) T. Jones
My hope is that we are able to trade 10 for 14 and 16 and draft Leonard and Marshall. Though I would be scared that one of them would get picked early. Either way I can't wait 'til Thursday!
Not that high on Leonard and to be honest I'm not really sure what all the hype is about. Marshall, however, is definitely a player I get excited over. And let me just say that absolutely love the name you're posting with. One of my favorite verses of any song of any genre of all time.
Lol thanks for the props on the name. But yeah, it's not that I am saying Leonard can come in from day 1 and be a good starter but I think if you let him develop with Davis and let Monty teach him, he has all the physical tools to become a great starter. Another thing I love is that I don't hear people bashing his motor which is always huge for Bigs.
Thanks. Basically I went to work today and it loaded. I couldn't play it while working, but it loaded. Then I came home and it still worked. I even refreshed the page after posting and it worked. Can't explain it but I am happy it happened.
I'm using IE. If you have used it before why watching in the browser, it shouldn't be a plugin issue or anything. Another possibility is to use the itunes link http://itunes.apple.com/us/podcast/hornets247-com-podcast/id415571358 the libsyn link http://hornets247.libsyn.com/ or the direct link to the MP3 http://traffic.libsyn.com/hornets247/06252012.mp3 It's a large podcast, so maybe it's tripping some limit. Let me know how these work for you.
Super psyched. About to listen, comments pending. And I'm watching Joe at the same time on Fox 8. This draft has me in a Hornets frenzy.