i think that AUSTIN RIVERS will be a good 10th pick for the Hornets. NO needs another good ball handler and a shooter. not just a normal shooter but a deep shooter with great hands like austin rivers.
« Ever-Newer Waters Flow . . .
Tenth Pick Tournament Round Two: The Results are IN!
Two blowouts and two narrow victories in the second round, plus a twist!
We finally have the match-up that I believe we all knew was inevitable, as Austin Rivers and Damian Lillard both cruised in their match-ups, while Tyler Zeller and Perry Jones III both pulled off mini upsets on the big man side of the bracket. Their reward? Not, just a battle against each other, but a Three-Way cage match with the winner of our loser’s bracket- Mr. Trade UP! Trade up and Meyers Leonard were neck and neck all week, but Trade Up literlly pulled ahead in the final hour, winning by three votes. Lamb was third and Arnett Moultrie was dead last, for those of you wondering.
Damian Lillard (67%) scores a victory over Kendall Marshall
Austin Rivers (61%) flows to a win over Terrence Ross (39%)
Tyler Zeller (53%) BACKdoors a victory over Jared Sullinger (47%)
Perry Jones III (56%) leaps to victory over John Henson (44%)
Trade Up (19.1%) narrowly edges out Meyers Leonard (18.9%) to get another chance at the crown
Semi- Final Schedule
Wednesday and Thursday
Austin Rivers vs. Damian Lillard
Friday and Saturday
Tyler Zeller vs. Trade Up vs. Perry Jones III
Results will be announced Monday, with the Finals debate coming Tuesday and results revealed Thursday afternoon.
Rivers vs. Lillard is difficult... Both would be instant contributors though, and if Lillard comes, then Vasquez is out of here, too many teams are interested in him.
Arghhh... every time I finish voting, another good article comes out from John Hollinger or someone else I like to read singing the praises of a recently eliminated player. This time, he was singing the praises of Marshall, Sullinger, and Ross. I actually voted for all of those guys, so I'm hoping one of them makes it back into this thing to fight for the title (or better yet, gets picked in the real draft).
Good job. Although my man, Sully, bowed out, I'm gonna go out on a limb and say PJ III is gonna win!
I think its important that we take into account our own ignorance. I have watched some games, and read a lot of scouting reports and looked at a tone of draft profiles but none of that touches the knowledge of Demps and his scouts. Each draft prospect represents a different direction of the team, we each have our own opinions about each player and a guess as to what they will be but if Demps chooses Royce White then I will be impressed and surprised that we missed and wonder what he is seeing that we aren't but he would know better than we would. The primary thing to consider is risk. If we get a risky pick then we better hope Monty can work his magic on them. Every year we see dissent against the pick. Last year I remember reading post after post on how we shouldn't have sold our second round pick, Josh Harrellson. Look at what he's done. He likely will be out of the league after his contract is up. Before that we drafted Cole Aldrich (same story) and traded for Q Pon who we then moved for Vasquez (who is a great backup PG/trade piece) and Craig Brackins (also out of the league after his rookie contract) for a year of Willie Green and Jason Smith (our energy backup PF/C who has played really well). What I'm saying is that since Demps we have made good choices, even if they sounded controversial at the time. I am happy that a man who knows more than any of us will be the one making the choice.
I got the nickname!!! Seriously, I started off thinking about it as a joke, came up with some funny ones. But then it came to me and it works on multiple levels. I GUARANTEE it sticks. Will debut it tonight on the podcast with Ryan. If he gives the thumbs up to it, I know it's gold!
actually harrelson played quite well for a rook last year for nykhoe its somethng with local flair the brass blaster? the second line (of defense)? big easy buckets ( alas that could have been for mt5)? the big easy? the nola nightmare? defend new orleans? the nola naysayer? man, i hopr you have something better than these
They're pitted against each other. It comes down to Rivers/Lillard vs Zellar/Jones. I'm not sure how the "revived" pick goes into this but its probably a consolation round of Trade up VS revived pick from this last round (Marshall probably). I think Zellar/Jones is pretty one-sided (Then again I thought Jones/Henson was one sided the other way). Rivers/Lillard will be interesting.
Hornets get: 5th Pick Rashard Lewis John Salmons Wizards get: Trevor Ariza Tyreke Evans 10th Pick Kings get: Emeka Okafor Andray Blatche Al-Farouq Aminu 3rd Pick Hornets move up to take Harrison Barnes. Lewis is a good team leader that the Hornets could use. Wizards add some young vetrans to put next too Wall plus add a lottery pick. Kings get a vetran big they're looking, plus they add some nice young pieces and move up in the draft.
Hornets686! You got it man. Ariza and Okafor gone and we got Lewis. Wow! I believe this move is the beginning of many other moves to follow!
smh @ lewis is a team leader. leaders set examples with work on court and work ethic, lewis is the kind of contractual dead weight that dell, fortunately for us, can't abide. only way this works is to amnesty him, not surre how rules for that work. kings would be taking everyones dead weight for... moving up two spots??!
non sequitur time: two things I would love to see discussed on this site: 1 - need a nickname for ad. while I appreciate his sense of humor about his unibrow, I can't help but feeling that that demeans the man a bit and does not do him justice. 2 - can we please discuss ariza? I can't count how, many times I've heard the pharase "dump ariza" on this site. I don't understand this at all. the esteemed times-pic writers continue to show their ignorance about this subject by stating that ariza was "benched" in the last couple weeks in favor of aminu. I guess that they also think we sat okafor down for the last couple months because we liked and wanted to see what jeff foote, solomon jones, and chris johnson brought to the table. I expect as little from the times pic writers, but not from commenter on this blog. yet I repeatedly hear that sentiment, that ariza can just be replaced with aminu. What?!?! Aminu mad some strides but he only played because in addition to wanting to develop him (and others) WE WANTED TO LOSE AS MANY GAMES as possible, especially in that last week. Back to Ariza- as we attempt build a defensive dynamo, why do we want to "dump" our best wing defender a guy who can guard a wade, a lebron, a durant? I admit that he is a glue guy and has been asked to go beyond that role and try and make something happen offensively, something that at this stage of his career he does with sporadic effectiveness. I find trevor to be an extremely valuable member of a team, and I'm curious to find what advanced stats say about his effectiveness over the last few years. Trevor is still very young and can continue to grow into his bruce bowen 2.0 role. Of course he needs to have scoring burden taken away from his and play his proper role (he needs to practice that corner 3 incessantly). Aminu reminds me of trevor in his early days with the knicks, he has some promise, that wingspan is tantalizing for a coach like monty, but he is a long way away from contributing w's . if we hope to go back to the playoffs in the nearer future, trevor is the guy. curious to see what others think.
I think that there are teams that like Ariza. He is a defensive specialist that can hit the three-pointer. His best days were in Los Angeles and Houston, where he wasn't the primary perimeter player (on offense) and just shot threes. In LA, Kobe Bryant was their main perimeter player, and Trevor was able to focus on the defensive side of the ball. In Houston, Aaron Brooks and Kevin Martin (after he was traded) were the main perimeter scorers. In New Orleans, he has had to be a scorer because Marco Belinelli just shoots threes. Eric Gordon only played for nine games, and Ariza only played in four games with Gordon the whole year. I think that Ariza can be a much more productive player if he is playing with a high-scoring guard (Bryant, Martin, Gordon) and is asked to just focus on defense and hit outside shots.
Yes, I agree. I was saying that I think Trevor Ariza still has trade value, but I would certainly rather Al-Farouq Aminu.
You make a great point, we don't know how Ariza would play off of Gordon and that's extremely important. My only issue with Ariza is I feel he has lost a huge amount of explosion in his game. He is virtually a spot up shooter who attempts difficult layups. At one point he was a walking poster and I don't recall many of those moments in a Hornets jersey. AFA's length alone makes him extremely valuable. He rebounds well and appears to have a midrange element to his game although far from polished. AFA just needs to continue to be more aggressive and believe that only a few on the planet can jump with him when he attacks the rim with confidence. AFA's only issue is mental and it's Monty responsibility to unleash him completely.
I have an AFA vs Ariza post about half-written. I'll try to get it done, just been stuck devouring any info I can find about the draft prospects lately.
excellent, could you include some numbers not only from last year but the year before for ariza. i think that is a fairer data set to use as he was surrounded by players that complemented him
Looking forward to reading that, they are arguably two of the most important questions to answer. Both are key to the defense almost equally as important as AD just due to the prevalence of perimeter scoring and athletes in today's NBA. I thought Ariza was solid and improved his shot selection tremendously last year, but AFA I feel has a higher ceiling and offers more versaility in the long run.
We will discuss him on the podcast tonight, but here is my formula when I use the phrase "dump" 1. What is the player's salary and how many years does he have left? 2. What would he get on the open market right now. 3. Every player starts off as a C asset, then you mark them down a half letter grade for every million dollars over market value that they are making- this year doesn't count, since it is an expiring contract. So, let's take Ben Gordon. If he were on the open market today, I think he would get around 6 million per year. But he is scheduled to make an average of 13 million per year for 2 years after this year. Overpaid by 7 million per year = 3.5 letter grades. Ben Gordon is a F minus, minus, minus, minus asset. If Ariza opts out, I can't see him getting a full mid level, but even if he did, that means he is overpaid by about 2 million. Drops a letter grade. He is a D asset. Attaching a D asset to any deal gets you less in return than if you did the deal without the asset. He is a below average SF making above average money. If we weren't Hornets fans and we looked at him objectively, we would think of him as the D asset that he is. Aminu, even though he is an inferior player, is a C asset. A guy whose production matches his salary. Ariza is the better player, Aminu the better asset. And Ariza is not a significant enough of an upgrade over Aminu to limit Aminu's minutes and chance to thrive. If you can dump Ariza, you do it, but it is easier said than done because he is a D asset. If other teams in the league agreed with you that he is a good player, they would be pursuing him. They're not. We will go more in depth after the draft. Between June 30th and July 10th we will shift our focus to our players, our free agents, and other teams free agents. Trades as well.
504- Maybe I worded it wrong, but yeah- everybody starts out as a 'C', then you look at their production vs. their salary. LeBron's production is worth 30-40 million per year. He makes way less than that, so he is an A+ asset. On a truly open market, he would make 50 million per year, or close to that. I agree with you on Aminu, but Ryan swears he has numbers that will make us think differently about Aminu. We shall see. Personally, I want to use Aminu as the 4 next to Davis at the 5 when we go small. Imagine Kendall Marshall running with EG and those two!
Michael, I like the concept but think at least one assumption is a problem, the 'everyone starts off as a C player' assumption. That can't be right. Does LeBron start out as a C player? My point is that Aminu and Ariza aren't both C players, before taking salary into account. Ariza is a much better player. If you want to grade players, I think you have to accurately reflect their relative talent. Then you can take salary into account. I agree Ariza is $1M-2M overpaid and an OK player. So he isn't much of an asset when you add him in a trade. But Aminu at $3M in 2012-13 is overpaid, too. The only good news is Aminu's 2013-14 salary is a team option. So he can be released after the 2012-13 season if he doesn't work out. But they are both bad trade assets. In no case would I trade Ariza because Aminu is so close to Ariza in terms of talent. So I completely disagree with this statement "And Ariza is not a significant enough of an upgrade over Aminu to limit Aminu’s minutes and chance to thrive." Aminu may be out of the league in a year or two.
even if you argue that aminu is a better value, the eye test cleatly states that one player helps you win ball games and one helps you lose them. to me aminu is not ready for prime time so that begs the question if you give up other assets to "dump" trevor, who of lesser salary are you picking up that is going to help us at the 3? aminu is being trained to be a future defensive stopper. trevor is the guy who at present initiates offense with his steals, can get it to marshall on the break to pass up to ej or the big easy for the deuce
Hornets247 staff, props for an excellent series. regardless of who wins tournament, reading about, commenting on, and hearing others comments on potential draft picks has been something I have enjoyed thoroughly. I have seen some of these guys extensively, some I haven't seen much at all, and it's a topic that interests me greatly.
Wow. I really don't like any of those guys. I'm probably going to vote for trade up. I liked Lillard and Rivers before, but I now believe that Marshall is the better player to draft. My favorite three are Waiters, Marshall, and T. Jones; but none of them are left. #teamtradeup!
Marshall T Jones Zeller I like Zeller... Because he gives you more roster flexibility as he would join Mek as the only centers on the roster... Also makes the option to amnesty mek if they wanted to... I only bring this up because assuming we give gordon the max we would have 57.95 in salaries next year... The soft cap is 58 mil... That leaves the mini mid level and minimum contracts to fill out the roster (only three spots left to fill) which isn't terrible... But if you get out of meks contract it puts around 44.4 mil... That gives us enough cap space to sign a young up and comer like Ersan illyosova to play the 3 or one of the young RFAs... Unless we can trade up... Depending how far up we can go... I'd take a chance on drummond and draft our two imposing frontcourt players... Another guy I'd take is Barnes.. Upgrade over Ariza..