http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rqYa9fpdIxM&feature=related @0:36 you'll see Davis dribble more than once and almost lose the ball before he collects it and hit the shot. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rqYa9fpdIxM&feature=related @0:40 he falls down untouched on the drive. @3:05 has the ball poked away @6:06 bobbles the ball and forces a tough lay-up. Doesn't have the post presense to make the basket easy.
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Recap of this Week’s Podcast
The bad news is that the audio in this week’s podcast taping was compromised, but the good news is that we will be doing a Live Video Chat tomorrow night before the lottery, discussing many of the same questions. In the meantime, here is a brief recap of what Ryan and I discussed:
- Playoff Basketball. I maintained that the game is being played outside-in, and therefore the best way to build your team is with perimeter scorers and agile big men who can hedge on screens and even switch on pick and rolls if they have to. Ryan maintains that you still want a dominant post presence. I agree on the offensive end, but not at the expense of the defensive side of the ball. When Indiana got to the final three minutes of their season, they pulled Roy Hibbert off the floor because he could not move well enough laterally. If I could only have one, I would rather have a big who was limited offensively but was an agile, long defender (John Henson) than a semi-dominant offensive big who will get killed in the pick and roll (Sullinger).
- We also talked briefly about the Western Conference and whether or not the Hornets should build their team to specifically match up with anyone in particular. Ryan says that you should disregard the teams in your conference and build your team in a vacuum, making sure the pieces fit together, with no regard for who you will be facing. I say you have to at least consider it and use it as a tiebreaker. For instance, we all think OKC will be the team we have to chase in the Western Conference this decade. Well, if you have to decide between MKG and Thomas Robinson, and they are that close in your mind- doesn’t MKG’s skills help you more against OKC? He can guard any of their big three, while Robinson’s biggest strength- his rebounding and down low scoring- will be somewhat negated by Ibaka and Perkins.
- Anthony Davis. I threw a list of guys out at Ryan and asked him whether or not, when it was all said and done, Davis would have a better career than these guys. Ryan and I agreed that he would have a better career than Marcus Camby, Alonzo Mourning, and Dirk Nowtzki. Ryan went back and forth for a minute before finally saying that Davis would have a better career than David Robinson- mostly because he will play more seasons. I agree. But Ryan drew the line at KG because he does not believe Davis will be as well-rounded. I disagree. I think Davis will be a slightly better defender and more willing to stay in the post throughout his career. I drew the line at Hakeem and Duncan. Bottom line, is we both see a Hall of Fame career.
- Despite our glorious reviews, I still had some “What if…” trade proposals for Ryan in the event that we do get the #1 pick, and shockingly he said he would do both of them! (I, of course, passed because I love the Unibrow.) Trade #1 was the first pick for Dwight Howard in a scenario where he agreed to extend his deal for five years and declared that he loved the city of New Orleans. Trade #2 was a scenario in which the Hornets got the first pick and the Blazers got the second pick and offered us #2 and Aldridge for the first pick.
- We flipped it around and discussed what we would offer for the #1 pick. The consensus; Anything. Even if we got picks 2 and 3, we would give them up for Davis. Here is my logic. Who would you rather of had for the past 15 years, Tim Duncan or Chauncey Billups and T-Mac? Now, Billups and T-Mac are borderline Hall of Famers, and the two best guys other than Duncan to come out of the 1997 draft class, but Tim Duncan is an all-timer. You take an all-timer over two All-Stars any day of the week.
- Speaking of the #2 pick, we discussed another trade for a vet scenario if we got that pick. This was a three-way trade that essentially moved Ariza and the #2 pick for an extend and traded Andrew Bynum. Ryan said he would do it because bigs are hard to get and he is the second best center in the league. I said no because of his immaturity, injury issues, and how easily he can be taken away in big games.
- Ryan and I agreed that if we get the #2 pick, we take MKG. My stance is that, unless you have an established star at a position, you do not draft based on needs. Remember when Portland traded out of the #3 spot and passed on Deron Williams and Chris Paul because they had a young guy they like named Sebastian Telfair? The Hornets should not pass on the guy who is clearly the second best prospect because Aminu didn’t embarrass himself in six or seven games down the stretch.
- Thomas Robinson was the clear #3 for both of us, and I liked Bradley Beal far more than Ryan did. If Drummond, Robinson, MKG, and Davis were off the board when we picked, I would take Beal and either pair him with Gordon or trade Gordon. Ryan, however, said that he would only take Beal if he fell to#10- which he knows that he won’t. The intriguing thing with Beal is that most people ask if he and Gordon can play together in the back court (which they can), but as Thorpe said in our podcast, Beal can play some SF too because of his bulk and wingspan. This is a small ball league after all.
- We talked about our dream pairings in different scenarios. If Ryan got the 1st and 10th picks, his dream would be Davis and Harrison Barnes- a guy he thinks could fall on draft night. I like the combo of Davis and Austin Rivers. I think if Rivers goes to the wrong team, he could fail, but in this scenario he would be the clear cut #3 guy and Davis would be there to cover up the gambles he takes on the defensive end.
If we get MKG, Ryan would like to pair him with Sullinger while I love John Henson. I could also go with the idea of taking Lillard or Marshall and getting a veteran big like Ersan Illysova in free agency. If we get Thomas Robinson, Ryan would love to see Barnes fall and if not Barnes, maybe Henson or Zeller. If we fall out of that range, we are both okay with Drummond at 5 or 6, but would not mind looking to move the pick for a vet.
- We were also asked if we would be willing to trade a future pick to move up in this draft- let’s say from 5 to 2 or from 10 to 6. I said yes, while Ryan said no. Personally, I would give up a top 10 protected pick to get a sure thing in MKG over a boom or bust prospect like Drummond. Same goes for the leap from 10 to 6, as I personally like 7 guys in this draft, and would be very happy to secure two of them.
- Maybe one day we will release the lost footage of this podcast, but for now, feel free to fire any questions in the comment section and we will answer. Also, check back in tomorrow night at 6:30 CST, as we will talk What If’s prior to the lottery, then cover the lottery live, and give you an instant mock draft after the results of the ping pong balls.
i think calling him a liability on the offensive end is a bit much. With his alley-opp catching ability that has to be good for the bear minimum of two dunks a game on pick and rolls( I think that is the low end) thats 4 points. He runs the floor great for a 7 footer, so getting out on the break has to be good for at least one bucket a game ( again low end) thats 2 points. He is a better than average offensive rebounder i dont think its out of the realm of possibility that he could get one rebound/put back per game ( i mean even kwame brown could.....wait never mind) thats 2 points. Even if you think he sucks in the post, which he doesnt, is it out of bounds to give him maybe 2 makes down low if given 6-8 shots? i mean thats not even 50% shooting on the block ( well below average) , but thats 4 points. lastly he shoots free throws at a 75% clip i think 3 made freethrows is not many for your starting pf/c. thats 15 points all using conservative estimates of the things he does well. i know that there is no way to garuntee that he will average 15 per his first year but you must keep in mind that points scored are points scored no matter how you get them. tell me, please tell me which of these categories you completely think he cannot perform in???? This is not even considering his jump improving which will only add to his game.
Throne every time I think I couldn’t possibly disagree with you more. You go and out do yourself again. How can you possible as a hornets fan and someone who has watched the awful ( on offense that is) Tyson chandler game in and game out, compare his offensive game to AD? Even with the advantage of 10 plus years of nba experience, Tyson is still not as good as AD shooting( mid range and free throws), dribbling and having touch around the rim. The only thing that Tyson is better at right now is strength, but that is something he didn’t have at 19, he worked to get it over the years. No one knows who will be a bust or a HOF, so what you do is draft the guy who has the best game now and hopefully they develop. No one is saying he is a lock to be a HOF but when you have a 7 footer who will be one of the best shot blockers when entering the league, can shoot free throws (this is big b/c it allows your big to stay on the floor in crunch time), has a drive and motor to be the best( im looking at you kwame brown!!!), good form on his jumpshot , and can dribble like a guard (because he was one, two years ago) YOU FREAKING DRAFT HIM 10 OUT OF 10 TIMES because they don’t grow on trees MAN!!!!!!! Also its not like he didn’t produce at a high level on the biggest stage he played some of his best ball in the tournament and brought home the title against the best college has to offer. He is not DRUMMOND!!!! He has skills now and will be drafted strictly off potential.
He has very suspect ball skills. Where is everybody getting this idea from? Dude loses control of the ball after more than one dribble. Sure he did it in HS that's HS. I didn't see it at Kentucky. They couldn't run the offense through Davis in college fat chance they do it in the pros. Everybody say yeah he didn't do it in college because whatever nonsense they can think of. The AD I seen in college was an offensive liability as far as creating.
I get it now, and I actually think Da Throne is kind of a genius. If Davis busts , he will be the ONLY person who called it and can boast for two decades. And when he succeeds, all he says is- yeah I was wrong on that one, but I got X player right. Small risk, HUGE reward. A Skip Bayless kinda move. Smart guy.
@Michael Mc. Watch this video starting at 3:35 and explain to me how Anthony Davis is drastically better than Tyson Chandler. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XUMucPdIgi4 Not saying being a shorter Tyson Chandler is a knock by any means, but we'll seen guys father along at there position than AD that just go to the league and are either good or average(some below average like Tyrus Thomas or Anthony Randolph).
Here's Garnett out of HS. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rp_SzdYd2gs The skills he displays in the first min of this video I've never seen from AD. It's no knock on Davis I've never seen any HS player with that kind of fluid movement and footwork. KG had it in HS and your telling me AD is just going to puck it out of thin air and dominate the league I'm sorry I just don't see it.
The truth no one can predict who will be rise or who will fall. Not even the sports writer or sportscasters can predict anything. No body thought Monticello Ellis was going to 5 yes later the top 5scoring SG, and he was drafted. In the 2nd round. Manu Ginobli is another one, so is Paul Milsap, and last but not least Marcus Thornton. My point is for all we kno Harrison Barnes and Jared Sullinger should not be seen way back of the line. As a matter of fact I wouldn't mind taken Barnes and Sullinger in the draft.
Chad Ford is currently raving about Damian Lillard. Said he went through one of the toughest workouts he's ever seen, and was still nailing shots at the end of the workout. Lillard appears to be a very solid athlete, quick, and a lights-out scorer. He may not last till 10, but if he's there, I think he is worth a very long look
This was another point we brought up. Guys like Ford will "rave" about dozens of guys over the next few weeks. Lillard was impressive, he also went crazy for Ross and Dion Waiters, but DraftExpress's Jonathan Givony said it best when he tweeted: "Over the next few weeks, guys will look impressive in workouts, but 99% of the time they play like they did in school, not in workouts."
As I have stated before, my only concern with Lillard is he played against poor competition, and the two times he played against NCAA tourney teams this year, he was horrible. I would love to have seen Austin Rivers numbers if he played for Weber State. Not saying I am anti-Lillard, but it worries me a little
Yeah, you're right. I did notice Ford loves everyone, as he also was raving about Drummond and PJIII. Lillard is a different kind of unknown, because he's coming from a smaller school where he lit up competition. Highlight tapes are often misleading, but I've seen Lillard pull off a variety of NBA guard scoring moves. Floaters, Euro-steps, off-hand finishes, curling around screens, pull-up jumpers, etc. Most importantly, he seems to be able to penetrate at will. The most impressive thing I saw about Lillard (besides the incredible scoring) was that he does not turn the ball over very often, which is uncharacteristic of ball-dominant guards.
I think I'm truly from another planet. I think it's so insane people are comparing Anthony Davis to HOFer. A guy I watch and think is ridiculously limited on offense. Will battle against Duncan and Garnett an all time player. He's not even a great post defender. You just don't go from where he is to a dominate force. If it's that easy every player in the league should be potential all-stars. The best shot blocker in college I've ever seen. That to me doesn't equal NBA all time great.
Okay, it is obvious that you won't be sold until he does it in the league, and that is fine. You need to see it to believe it, I respect that. Let's try one last time, though. Who was better at 19- Anthony Davis, Time Duncan, or Kevin Garnett? The answer, quite simply, is Davis. If I went back to 1984 and wrote an article in the Chicago Tribune saying this Jordan guy would be better than Dr. J, people would have ripped that, saying Jordan doesn't have a consistent jumper and the guy didnt even make his varsity team in HS his sophomore year. Imagine writing an article after he was drafted 13th saying this Kobe Bryant kid would be a top 10 player. All timers do come around from time to time, and he is the next one. Maybe you will believe tomorrow, maybe it will take a few years, but this is one of the most obvious projections I ever made.
This is so confusing to me because I have read your other comments and posts on HR and you definitely know your stuff, but I couldn't disagree more on this topic. Let me ask you this, what have you not seen from him on the offensive end- and keep in mind he is 19. I have seen a righty hook and a lefty hook on the blocks. I saw him hit the midrange and his free throws, and even step out to 3 late in the year. I saw above average foot work down low and superb athleticism finishing on lobs and in the pick and roll. I even saw him catch the ball out at 18 feet and drive past his man and finish. What can't he do? He led the most talented team in the country in scoring, and could have easily put up 20+ if playing for an average team like Mississippi State. Saying he "only averaged 13+ a game" for them is like saying you think Chris Paul can't score because he only put up 10 points per game for Team USA. They were balanced and when Davis got the ball, he was one of the most efficient guys in the country despite an average usage rate. At 19, he is a better shooter than Duncan or KG at that age, more athletic than Duncan and more polished than KG on the offensive end. Again, if you look at my past, I am more critical of incoming rookies than most, but this is one of those elite players. In fact, as far as prospects go, he ranks behind only Lebron as far as prospects to come into the league in the last 10 years.
Anthony Davis is better at 19, but that's not a even comparison. Duncan at 19 was only 4 or 5 years into the sport. He was a swimmer until then. And Garnett at 19 was playing against the best players in the world. AD has a huge physical advantage over Duncan and noticable gap on Garnett. But they both displayed a high level skill base. I see no such base for Davis. Skills don't just magically appear because you practice them. I'm convinced skill are closer to athletic ability they can only be refined so much. I've seen guys much farther along than Davis never get to a level of Garnett and Duncan. The notion that you simply just work at it and so it will be done is completely off. Shaq shot a ton of free throw still shot an awful percent. Can Davis get there anything is possible. However saying it like it's a far gone conclusion when he could do it with even moderate consistency in college is an ideal that has been proven to be very very low percentage.
I was thinking the same thing. I really wasn't that impressed with him, but scouts seem to love him. Chad Ford asked an executive from every NBA team who they would take #1, and they all said Davis. I know I'm probably wrong, but I just don't get it.
Damn shame about the podcast. Was looking forward to it -- and not just cause you used my question. I do think that both Barnes and Sullinger could fall -- with Sullinger maybe lasting till the end of the lotto. I don't know I'd pick either with the 2nd pick if the Hornets land MKG or Robinson. I'd be tempted to go more with either John Henson or one of the guards. We'll see how things shape up starting tomorrow.
If we draft a pg, is Vasquez gone? I'd rather ditch Jack and his "slipping in the clutch" self and hand the keys to the car to Marshall or Lilliard. Next senerio: we luck into the #1 and #2 picks, do we take Davis and MKG or davis and a great deal for #2? Also no marco, amnesty okafor, re-sign kaman for reasonable $$$, sign either Chris Johnson or Solomon Jones as depth too. Ok i'm out.
The problem with going with Vasquez and a rookie is you enter teh season with a total of 2 years NBA experience at quite possible the most important position on the team. If the Hornets take a PG, I would expect that they look to move Vasquez and have Jack tutor that PG for a year. As for your question- Ryan and I both agreed in the podcast that if we get uber lucky and land 1 and 2, we take Davis and MKG
Henson just looks way to thin and skinny for me. I just keep thinking tyrus Thomas, Brendan wright, Anthony Randolph, Cedric Simmons, etc.
What's the knock on Beal? As I look at the Hornets I see a team with more needs on the perimeter than in the post. I assume Gordon is here to stay, but beyond him there is really no one on the roster that is a part of the team's future. Right? In the wing/post we've got Ayon, Smith, Aminu, and Henry, all of whom would seem to be part of the future. (Of course there is Ariza and Okafor too, though either of them could be traded or amnestied.) Beal is a very talented player, and I think we need to start stockpiling some backcourt players, which is why I would consider drafting him with the third or fourth pick (if that is where we end up). There will be plenty of solid bigs (like Sully, Benson, Moultrie, or Zeller) available at the tenth spot, and to me it would be better to draft a combination of Beal + Henson, than to go TRob + Rivers.
For me, he's just not that impressive. Weak numbers on very long minutes. The excuse? Ball-hog teammates, he's still a kid, and fluke bad shooting. I'm not sure I can buy that - and guess what, all of these prospects are kids, and many of them put up good numbers. He's got two things going forward: Good rebounding numbers and solid numbers drawing free throws. He was bad enough everywhere else, I have a hard time calling him a top-5 talent.
Comparing Davis with Garnett, Duncan, Nowitzki? Fine. Better than Nowitzki and Garnett? Wow! But not better than Duncan? That's OK. :) Then why trade him for Howard? (Who had only one trip to the NBA finals so far)
I'm hedging. I believe he will be that great - but there's a chance he won't be. Trading a player with an 80% of being an all-timer for the best center in basketball right now and probably for the next five years? I'd do that. The Aldridge + 2nd was a tougher call for me. I keep wanting to waffle on that. Still, if you nab MKG and Sullinger, then sign someone like Dragic and go to war with Okafor/Smith-Aldridge/Sullinger-MKG/AFA-Gordon/Henry-Dragic/Vasquez. That could be something pretty good.
The argument I could make for trading him for Howard is that it could attract other guys immediately. Would CP3 come back if Howard and Gordon were here, locked up to 5 year deals? Wouldn't that be more enticing than Blake and DeAndre Jordan? But I agree with you, I wouldn't trade Davis for anything short of LeBron or Durant. Those are the only two IMO.
I don't want CP3 back... why would you want two players on your roster who both demanded to be traded to larger markets so they could be bigger stars. Take that ego to NY/LA, not here where it doesn't belong. I want players like Duncan (and Durant so far), who are exceedingly loyal to the fans and city/area they represent, and want to deliver championships with a solid team. The Clips can keep CP3... and the Nets can have Howard. I would never make that trade in a million years.
i was like sooooo looking forward to the podcast!!!!$%&*!!! so what am i supposed to do now? work?LOL