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Counter-Point: The Logic of Losing Landry »
Point: Carl Landry should stay
Part 1 of Mason Ginsberg’s and Ryan Schwan’s point-counterpoint argument on whether Carl Landry should be retained this coming off-season.
If there is any place on the floor that the Hornets seem to have lots of options this off-season, it is the frontcourt. The draft has a group of promising young power forwards and the Hornets already have Okafor, Jason Smith and Gustavo Ayon under contract – not to mention tweener forward AFA. As a result here’s a question I hear a lot: Is there any room for the little big man Carl Landry? Should he be brought back?
Most people say no.
I say yes.
You see, Carl Landry has been pigeon-holed as a one-dimensional player. He’s been classified as a black-hole scorer, a non-rebounder, and a classic tweener that takes more off the table than puts on it. I’m here to tell you it’s bunk. Landry actually does a lot to help this team win – and I think room should be made for him to operate as a sixth-man on the roster.
The Rebounding Myth
No, Landry’s rebounding numbers don’t look impressive. Yes, he plays power forward and should be snagging lots of rebounds. Here’s the reality, however. The Hornets posted a 12th best 50.7% rebound rate for the season. When Carl Landry was playing, they posted a 52.2% rebound rate. It also wasn’t all on one side, either. Landry’s presence increased offensive rebound rate by .7%, but the team’s defensive rebound rate also increased from 73.1% to 76.9%. To put that in perspective, the Hornets were the 15th ranked defensive rebounding team at 73.1%. San Antonio was 1st. At 76.0%. So the Hornets, with Landry on the floor, went from solid to great. Only one player who got significant minutes for the Hornets (500 minutes or more) improved his team’s rebounding numbers more than Carl Landry did. (Put your guesses in the comments!) It’s my opinion that rebounding may be Landry’s biggest strength on the court.
The Scoring War
Now, I’m not going to try to argue that Landry is a good defender. He’s not. Other teams shot better last year when he was on the floor. They draw fouls and free throws at a slightly higher rate. They turn the ball over less. They have their shots blocked less often. It’s all true. He’s not terrible, but he’s definitely not average, either.
However, you have to balance all of that with what Carl Landry does to the team’s offense when he’s on the floor. The Hornets turn the ball over less than usual with him on the floor, they post a better eFG% with him on the floor, and most importantly, they draw a lot more free throws with him on the floor. In fact, other than Eric “Wrecking Ball” Gordon and Xavier Henry, no one improved the Hornets likelihood of getting free throws more than Carl Landry. This helped the whole team score more easily and more often. In my book, efficient scoring is worth a lot.
The Hornets are a team that is starved for scoring. Teams looking for power forwards will have a plethora of restricted and unrestricted free agents this off-season to look at: Ersan Ilyasova, Brandon Bass, Michael Beasley, Kris Humphries, Antawn Jamison, Jason Thompson, Marreese Speights, Ryan Anderson, Ronny Turiaf, Louis Amundsun, Jordan Hill, and Earl Clark. Landry is simply not going to command a huge multi-year salary with all those guys out there. I think the Hornets could ink Landry to a three-year mid-level style deal, and if they make him the featured scorer of the second unit, I think that contract would be worth every penny.
So, here’s to keeping Landry in NO.
What do you think? Sound off in the comments!
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It all depends on the draft. If we go guard or SF, bring him back. If we get AD or T Rob, can't bring him back. That simple.
One of the keys to this argument is...LANDRY SAID HE WANTS TO STAY!!!! I'm tired of the Hornets picking up free agents or trading for players who don't want to be here. So in the end, we lose out because all of our talent leaves for bigger markets!!! It's time we get some players that WANT to be here and will give a 100% effort, not use us to negotiate their next contract in a big market. If Landry wants to be here long term and we can get him for a reasonable amount, SIGN HIM!!!!!!!
True, but the previous management blew a Hornets roster that had the most potential, so CP3 and DWest got tired of waiting. The difference now is that we have local ownership, a coach who can develop young players (a Byron Scott opposite), and a Competent GM. The future looks much better than it did under B Scott, Jeff Bower, and Shinn.
Carl Landry isn't what you think he is, it's the system that in place by Monty Williams! You can feed people numbers all you like to support your statement, but in basketball, it's all about the type of coach system that's implemented! Coach Monty Williams runs a playoff/championship type system which is a Slow Tempo Offensive Half Court system(look at the Spurs), which allows physical play on defense due to non-wasted energy use on the offensive end of the floor. THIS system is use thru out the playoffs and the team that can play a Half Court Game/running their offense usually goes deep into the playoffs. It's ugly and boring but it's a winning formula! *Most teams that's Young&Dumb that likes to push the tempo on offense, normally loses focus on the defensive end (defending & rebounding). The system allows players to already be in Place for rebounds and weak side help bcuz its a rotating Defense that give a zone look but is acually a man2man which allows players to cover areas on the floor. It's the scrappy teams that does the little things that always hold the Trophy at the end! The slow Half Court Game is the formula for success! Tiago Splitter can do what Carl Landry do for us, and he won't quit by faking a injury, unlike Carl! Let's save that $10M needed to resign a veteran in Landry just to play a PF 6man off the bench and help out our back court! We need a athletic PG as a starter! Let's have a scorer or a offensive facilitator coming of the bench aka Harden/Ginobli/Terry! We need a better back court just for our perimeter defense & our offense pressure to penetrate other teams defense! -Just Saying-
I liked Landry and always wondered about him as a Hornet when he was with both the Rockets and the Kings though so I don't necessarily think it has anything to do with Monty's 'system', unless Monty was also on the Rockets and Kings staffs. Does Monty run a system similar to the Rockets and Kings?
"Coach Monty Williams runs a playoff/championship type system which is a Slow Tempo Offensive Half Court system(look at the Spurs)" I did happen to look at the Spurs. They're tied for 7th in pace. The Hornets were last with the slowest pace. Not so similar. Your perception of the Spurs seems to be dated. Just saying.
To mee He must stay!!!as long as we give him consistent time he produdces very welll BEST SIXTH MAN IN THE LEAGUE!
I have been banging the same drum for a while now. That's the "future" drum. I can't see Landry as a long term part of the future as such he should be let go.
My only question is: How many second unit bigs can we fit on this team? Smith and Ayon are bench guys on a good team and even if we do take a power forward in the draft, you know Monty is not starting a rookie from day one, so I just don't see Landry fitting. Now if the Hornets move Ayon while his trade value is at its peak or they target other positions in the draft, then bring back Landry. Otherwise, invest the money elsewhere
Chuck and 504ever, you two have hit a lot of the points that my reply coming at noon makes. I think you'll both enjoy it.
Thanks, Mason. I personally think a sign/not sign Kaman point/counterpoint is a closer call. Okafor, who I think is a solid player even at his salary when healthy, isn't healthy right now. It's hard to get a quality C through free agency or a trade, and a drafted one would take a long time to develop (if he works out at all). So Kaman signed at a reasonable price, for say 2 years, might be the best insurance around for Okafor. Kaman has warts (on defense), but he also works hard and has an offensive game. So it's a 'glass half empty half full' thing on Kaman as a player, and probably on the strategy of resigning him as insurance at C.
I think bring Landry back as a leader of the 2nd team and at an appropriate salary only makes sense pre-draft, and it only makes sense if Ayon plays some back-up C next year, too. With the likelihood that PFs could constitute half of the players taken with the first 10 picks, it's hard not to see the Hornets drafting at least one. And some of these PFs are "tweeners" just like Landry, better offensively than defensively etc. Look at the quality PFs already signed for next year, Smith and Ayon, and ask yourself how many minutes does Landry get if they are healthy? Even if Ayon plays some back-up C? Then add in a top 10 pick PF. You will have three young PFs without Landry, playing under cheaper contracts with 2-3 years to run. There is no way the Hornets put free agent dollars into Landry under that scenario. There are too many other needs on this team, like a playoff quality starting PG, a back-up C, and maybe a starting C. Some would add back-up SG and back-up SF to the list. Now assume the Hornets somehow don't draft a PF. What happens to the current PFs on all of the teams that take a PF in the top 10 picks or in the lottery? They all end up as free agents, or maybe get traded for a future 2nd rounder. What do you think Dealer Dell would rather do: sign Landry for more money or sign a younger guy cheaper and coach him up? Based on all of the 'diamonds in the rough' Dell has found so far (Smith and Wiliie Green in the same trade, Belinelli, Henry, Ayon, etc), I say the latter. I don't think any of the guys the Hornets gave up for those players are even in the league! So Dell sees an entire league of possibilities in a way no fan or writer can. So the only way the Hornets resign Landry is if the Hornets don't draft a PF and can't sign a PF they want that is a FA. That's very unlikely and too bad; Landry will make a good 2nd team PF for someone. But that someone will be a team whose weakness is PF. PF is a relative strength for the Hornets before the upcoming draft, where it will likely get stronger. So I don't see Landry back in a Hornets uniform.
My guess is the other player is Ayon. "He’s been classified as a black-hole scorer, a non-rebounder, and a classic tweener that takes more off the table than puts on it." Who was classifying him like this? Most people I see call him an undersized power forward who's a great sixth man but doesn't have the size or defense to be a full time starter on a contender. Isn't that basically what you're saying about him too? I'd be all for him if we didn't have Ayon and Smith, but the way we're going why keep yet another bench big man on our roster, especially if we draft Davis, T-Rob or Sullinger
I'd rather Ilyasova, so the better question to ask is: Is Carl Landry the better option to sign? It wouldn't pain me to see him go, but I wonder if he has been miscast as a mediocre starter when he could be a dynamite substitute. You just wonder if that is the role he wants (or, more properly, DOESN'T), and if that is perhaps the conflict between him and Monty, and a source of some of his curiously passive behavior on the court sometimes.
I read on CBSsports.com that Andrew Bynum would play anywhere do you think we should go after him in a trade?
In isolation, I have no problem keepong Carl. My only worry is the drawn out drama between him and Monty this year. If we have other options and end up with him, I suppose those are cleared up.
If it's about they typo, then I'm sure he doesn't want it. It sounds like a something getting inserted somewhere, which is bad at least fifty percent of the time. If you are asking a real question, then I think that would depend on Carl's best option excluding the Hornets from consideration. If that's better, he'll take it. Basic economics.
The key to bringing him back is based on money if you ask me. He would be great to have at the right price. Hopefully he remembers how we overpayed him for this season and give us a long term discount. I think if we can bring back Landry at around 6 mill a year for at least 4 years then I would bring him back in a heartbeat. We can work out the rotations in training camp, but you cant deny Landry can ball with the big boys. He's an ideal scoring backup PF.