Add Derrick Rose the List of Scrubs that Chris Paul PWNS

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Published: October 17, 2011

With the official word that Derrick Rose is the NBA’s eighth best player, we can officially bask in the glory of the official Point God, Chris Paul.

It is not without debate, though. John Hollinger disagrees with us putting CP3 ahead of Rose. He points to a few simple means of analyzing the players’ differences.

  • Paul only had a slightly better PER this year
  • Paul is better in clutch situations
  • Paul’s assists, while better, are padded at home (I must ask, then, why his home/away assist disparity isn’t noticeably larger than that of other point guards?)
  • Paul got worse as the season wore on
  • Rose got better.

He goes on to say that “Obviously, the differences between these players are microscopic enough that reasonable people can disagree (and apparently do) about which one is better. Nonetheless, if I could have had two extra decimal points for my ratings I’d have given Rose a 9.03 and Paul a 9.01. It’s close, but as of this month Rose is a little better.”

Rose is a great player already and he may very well be a little bit better than Paul when it’s all said and done, but as of now I must disagree with Hollinger and side with the collective might of the 91 basketball writers that ESPN asked.

28 Comments

  1. Statcenter on Twitter

    October 17, 2011 at 12:49 pm

    I just tweeted this on @statcenter:

    CP3’s closest Win Share comps thru 6 yrs: J West, W Frazier, Magic.
    D-Rose thru 3 yrs: S Francis, R Miller, B Roy.

    CP3 is in a class by himself, and I’m glad more people got a reminder of that in last year’s playoffs.

  2. QueenBee

    October 17, 2011 at 1:40 pm

    Rose is more athletic/explosive, younger, a better dunker (this is where the explosiveness that I mentioned comes into play) and plays in a bigger market. That is all. Not a better shooter, not a better passer, doesn’t protect the ball as well as Paul, doesn’t seem to have the BBIQ and court vision that Paul has. Really nice player though.

    • Ian

      October 17, 2011 at 6:37 pm

      When listing attributes Paul may come out ahead, but being able to attack the rim at will is extremely valuable. Using the logic Paul backers use John Stockton is better than Michael Jordan.

  3. 42

    October 17, 2011 at 1:51 pm

    Scrub is a fun characterization, if wildly inaccurate.

    Paul is not the best center and Rose is not the best pure point guard. The question is: is it better to have a pure point guard ir someone like Rose? On which team? Against which opponents?

    • QueenBee

      October 17, 2011 at 2:38 pm

      I agree. I certainly wouldn’t call Rose a scrub. Scrubs don’t win MVP’s even if they’re hyped and could’ve been considered the MIP playing on one of the best if not THE BEST defensive team in the league.

      • VarsityKillerZ

        October 26, 2011 at 5:55 am

        i think your forgetting something dawg, the MVP goes to the “MOST VALUABLE PLAYER TO A TEAMS SUCCESS” this does not mean he is the best player in the NBA it simply means he is the best player for the most successfull team in the nba.

        BTW Chris Paul came second in 2008 for the nba MVP award but was beaten by Kobe bryant who in that year had his best season to date. And The hornets were no even the most successful team whats this saying, Hmm maybe u haterz are jealous CHRIS PAUL is not a point guard he is a POINT GOD!!!

        so dont you be talking scrub dude.

    • Joe Gerrity

      October 17, 2011 at 2:43 pm

      Just joking around. Last year’s MVP is most definitely not a scrub.

      • 42

        October 17, 2011 at 4:35 pm

        Yup. Fun.

  4. Jin

    October 17, 2011 at 3:22 pm

    who gives a flaming shiet about stats. What it comes down is to which player can lead his respective team to victory. Bulls won 60 games last year, hornets won a measly 46. I mean that’s really what it comes down to, that should kill the argument right there. Both Rose and Paul had similar help. Both were the primary offensive player on mainly defensive teams (hornets had 3rd worst offense, 5th best defense; bulls had 10th worst offense, and league’s best D.)

    Also, the two times these two guys matched up last season, Bulls took both games. First game, Paul’s ass was SHUT DOWN by rose and was an awful 3 of 10 from the field. Second game paul was out, and of course rose put the team away anyways.

    Rose > Paul

    • Joe Gerrity

      October 17, 2011 at 3:28 pm

      “who gives a flaming shiet about stats.”- People who like to look at basketball objectively utilizing tools that can be used to analyze more effectively than just the naked eye.

      Leading teams to victory? That bulls team has some real talent, they play in the East. It was also one year…

      Two games? Small sample size…

      It’s the D-Willer phenomenon all over again!

      PS- The way you judge offense (ppg instead of PPP) isn’t really rational. You fail to include pace, so you’re left with a statistic that doesn’t tell you what you’re looking for.

      • Bill

        October 17, 2011 at 5:03 pm

        Statistics, in of itself, are not objective. They can be widely agreed upon, making it more or less objective. However they can be somewhat controversial in their make up or their importance (i.e. The disparity of assists between CP3 at home vs. CP3 away, could come down to the home scorekeeper being much more generous).

        Statistics are a compilation of empirical data. Empirical data is the process of gathering information through observation. More accurately, it is gathering info through the senses (since observation can imply only through sight). However sight is one of the ways; possibly the most prominent way to gather such info.

        Even farther beyond the natural subjectivity of stats is the subjective nature we interpret stats. For example, the idea that Jin chooses to pay attention to wins. Where you, Joe, choose to add nuance to your choice. Adding nuance alone, is proof enough that statistics are far from objective.

        In the end teams are improving their offensive and defensive efficiencies for one thing… wins. Players try to play and improve at high levels to win (barring the occasional stat wh*re). Wins is the overall stat that matters and anything else is our attempt to explain why and how.

      • 42

        October 17, 2011 at 5:17 pm

        Good points.

        Two things. One, the issue is not ig home stats are padded for Chris; it’s are they padded more for him than others. If not, then it’s a wash. Oscar Robertson could have a beef, not Rose.

        Two, wins are more about the teams and their fit rather than individuals.

        Dilfer = Brees = Manning based on Super Bowl metric. That’s crazy.

      • Bill

        October 17, 2011 at 5:39 pm

        42, I agree with both points you made.

        I will clarify that my points were not based upon DRose > CP3. They were commenting on how subjective both sides of the argument are. Also that wins, as a stat by itself, is the least subjective of them all. In the idea that either you won or you lost.

        Of course CP3’s assist numbers will be better in games exclusively played in New Orleans because he is better than the average point guard (imo he is the best there is today when healthy). I was pointing out how is numbers could be better because of a slightly more biased, subjective interpretation of them.

        Wins are definitely a team stat. Just like DRose’s necessity to score for his team because the lack of offense his teammates provide.

        Don’t get me started on Dilfer (the dude frustrates the heck out of me). Although, HE might actually have that opinion

      • 42

        October 17, 2011 at 5:57 pm

        Yeah, I gotcha. I was speaking generally about these sorts of debate. I’m trying to squeeze my ass in the door behind you so I can add stuff like MCA does for Mike D in the Beastie Boys.

        Dilfer is funny. He loves Brees. He’ll tell you all day long that he isn’t fit to lick Brees’ socks.

        You another Bulls guy?

        Stick around. I have a spiel elsewhere.

        We welcome all fans, and I welcome them more if they agree with me.

    • 42

      October 17, 2011 at 4:34 pm

      So Jason Kidd is the best point guard? The other two led their team to defeat. Them and the not-a-point-guards in Miami.

      Wow.

      I’ve got to think about that, Jin.

      Are you sure you want to use that criterion?

      I think Paul and Rose are different sorts of players. What do you think?

      • Jin

        October 17, 2011 at 5:32 pm

        did you not even read what i said?
        1. Kidd has frickin nowitzki
        2. So, Kidd isn’t the primary offensive scorer on his team
        3. Bulls had more wins than the Mavs anyways

        Obviously Rose and Paul are completely different point guards. But when it comes to terms of measuring their value in the league like the ESPN list is trying to do, Rose is simply more valuable. If there was a fantasy draft between all NBA owners today, all 30 owners are picking Rose before Paul if they want the best shot of winning a championship ground-up, I can guarantee that.

        And, no offense, but the title of this article is stupid. I’m sure it’s already been mentioned.

      • 42

        October 17, 2011 at 5:53 pm

        I did. I just read all of it.

        Frankly, I hate these sorts of things (ESPN, not you). I just reflexively and immaturely `poke’ when I see them.

        We’re cool.

        And Joe just gets froggy sometimes. The title (I’m sure) is an attempt to draw some attention and discussion.

        Stick around, man. We cover all sorts of NBA stuff, not just Hornets. We welcome other fans.

        You a Bulls man, yeah?

      • cmac81

        October 17, 2011 at 5:59 pm

        1. sarcasm..
        2. sarcasm..
        3. Mavs won the championship (that thing that happens after the regular season and is more important than the number of wins)

        All 30 owners eh? Who exactly is your insider source in each franchise genius? All 30 owners should be fined for disclosing that information since they can’t mention players right now anyways..

        PS. Most franchises let their GMs take care of player movement/drafting, which is smart since clearly your owners aren’t very smart.

      • cmac81

        October 17, 2011 at 6:00 pm

        Ah 42 beat me to the reply, and did it with so much more class than I. Damn…

      • Joe Gerrity

        October 17, 2011 at 7:21 pm

        I thought the title being less than serious was made pretty clear by my use of the word “PWNS”. All in good fun.

    • neitzelbaby12

      October 17, 2011 at 10:32 pm

      i don’t like u

      • neitzelbaby12

        October 17, 2011 at 10:38 pm

        when i said i don’t like u i meant jin

      • 42

        October 17, 2011 at 10:56 pm

        C’mon, man.

        Give the new guys a day, especially given what they are responding to.

  5. Jin

    October 17, 2011 at 3:25 pm

    Who cares about stats!? What it comes down is to which player can lead his respective team to victory. Bulls won 60 games last year, Hornets won a measly 46. I mean that’s really what it comes down to, that should kill the argument right there. Both Rose and Paul had similar help around them offensive-wise. Both were the primary offensive player on mainly defensive teams (hornets had 3rd worst offense, 5th best defense; bulls had 10th worst offense, and league’s best D.)

    Also, the two times these two guys matched up last season, Bulls took both games. First game, Paul was absolutely SHUT DOWN and TORN APART by Rose and was an awful 3 of 10 from the field. Second game paul was out, and of course Rose put the team away anyways.

    Rose > Paul

  6. QueenBee

    October 17, 2011 at 4:49 pm

    Awwww Lord. Here we go. Now fans are once again going to be mad at/hate Chris Paul for something that ESPN is conducting.

  7. nikkoewan

    October 20, 2011 at 6:10 am

    haha the comments are funny. I just laugh at it just liked I laughed at all those DWill pipz. But sooner, Rose is going to be better. When he learns how to protect the ball and be aware of his teammates, he’s going to be the better player. Right now? Give me Paul 10 times out of 10.

  8. VarsityKillerZ

    October 26, 2011 at 5:58 am

    I bet if CP3 had of won that MVP award in 2008
    All you Haterz would not be debating the chris paul vs derrick rose situation.

  9. MelDee

    October 28, 2011 at 10:16 am

    Derrick is the polar opposite of a scrub and Chris will never be a god.

    Chris’s PER > Derrick’s PER

    Chris’s Season < Derrick's Season

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