Previous Post:
«

Just Passing it Along….

By:
Published: February 17, 2011

Don’t want to cause a stir around here, but I had a very interesting conversation with an Eastern Conference front office person who told me that the Hornets and Cavs are still discussing Antawn, and the current deal being discussed involves several other players, including Trevor Ariza and Jamario Moon. One or more of the Heat’s picks and cash are also on the table, and Cleveland is pushing the currently proposed deal, but Demps has not given a firm NO, or anything close to that.

The belief is that Jamison could provide a much needed scoring punch, but his salary is still too high. Sending Ariza away in the deal helps unload some future salary burden, but the Hornets will want more if this trade is to go through. If it does go through, expect a third team to be involved.

Just acting as a messenger….

107 comments
Hornets686
Hornets686

Hornets get: Antawn Jamison Gerald Wallace Matt Carroll Kwame Brown Jeff Teague Heats 1st Round Pick Cavs get: Trevor Ariza Jarrett Jack David Andersen Bobcats get: Marcus Banks Marcus Thornton Marvin Williams Hawks get: Ramon Sessions Jamario Moon Jason Smith Cavs 2nd Round Pick

CNas
CNas

You guys are seriously out of your mind if you think anything like this would happen. The Cavs trade Jamison (who will be a huge expiring next year), Sessions (who is better and younger than Jack), Moon (doesn't matter), along with a 1st round pick and a 2nd round pick for Ariza, Jack, and David Anderson. This trade would do absolutely nothing for them. They end up with a guy in Ariza who is average and overrated by most and still signed until at least 2012-2013, Jack who isn't any better than the guards they already have or the one they would be trading (also signed through 2012-2013), and David Anderson, who from all accounts is nothing too special. I wouldn't even give up the 1st and 2nd for those three players, let alone a young and improving PG in Sessions and a soon to be giant expiring in Jamison. The Cavs want picks and/or young players with upside in return. Not guys in their late 20's and guys with limited upside.

L_REAZY
L_REAZY

One question: Why would the Bobcats trade Gerald Wallace? I love the idea of getting Jamison and Sessions ... but when you add Wallace's name to that possible trade I start to get overly excited. Before I get too excited ... (in the words of Scarface) just tell me why, Frank? Why would they trade Wallace to anyone? I mean, if the Hornets somehow got Jamison, Sessions, and Wallace ... and then executed a J.R. Smith trade ... Demps would be Exec.-Of-The-Year! F-West, F-Wallace, C-Okafor, G-JR Smith, G-Paul F-Jamison, F-Moon, C-Mbenga, G-Green, G-Sessions Assuming in some form of a trade the Hornets would have to part ways with: Ariza, Jack, Thornton, J. Smith, Gray, Andersen, Banks, Belinelli, & Pondextor. WESTERN CONFERENCE FINALS!!!! L_REAZY

CNas
CNas

Hey guys...came across this from one of the Cavs boards. First off, for anyone hoping for Hickson, the only way he'd be heading to NO is if West was involved. He's been playing really well lately and is still only 22. The deal proposed is interesting, but I don't really see where it helps the Cavs that much. Gilbert doesn't care about paying Jamison's salary and has made that much clear. Unless they get a great offer before the deadline, the Cavs are better off waiting and trying to trade Jamison during the draft or during next year when he's a large expiring contract (and part of his salary may not get paid if there is a lockout). Jamison is perhaps the biggest asset they have, so I highly doubt they would unload him along with two picks for a package of Ariza, Banks, Anderson, and Jack. The Cavs are already heavy at guard, and Williams, Gibson, and Seesions are all better than either Jack or Banks. Ariza would be a decent addition and fill a position of need, but the other guys in the trade don't offer much. BTW, the reasoning for the Cavs saying they are willing to take on a long term deal is that they know they won't be a contending team again till several years down the road. It's already been shown that good free agents won't sign in Cleveland (just like the majority of small markets) so the cap space doesn't matter. The owner is willing to pay any type of salary or luxury tax. That means they are willing to take on a long term deal if they get quality picks or young players in return. The thought is that by the time the Cavs are competing for the playoffs again, that big, long term contract will be an expiring deal that they can hopefully flip for an impact player. Great strategy in theory but obviously many things can go wrong. Anyway, the proposed deal I saw just doesn't make sense when you factor in everything the Cavs front office has said all season. They know they are rebuilding and the only real assets they need to worry about trading right now Moon and Parker if they want to. The Cavs are in the business of gaining assets, whether that's draft picks or young talented players. This trade really satisfies nothing that the Cavs are after. For a deal like this to work, a 3rd team would likely have to be brought in that could offer the Cavs more in the way of draft picks and/or young players. It would be a great move for NO though. Jamison has been playing pretty well this season and his $15 mill would clear off the books just in time for Chris Paul.

Brandon
Brandon

Is Danny granger still available?

TopherPrice
TopherPrice

Danny Granger has never been available this year. He is their CP3, he will not be had without giving up a whole lot of assets, and they definitely are not looking to lose one of the two young assets they have.

CP3nBrees
CP3nBrees

Actually he was avaliable at first, but after coaching change they are now playoffs conterder, now he is no longer avaliable

SuperHornet
SuperHornet

From the comments over on the Cav's forums there is no way this rumor has any truth to it. They even believe that the Cav's are willing to take on salary and are not just looking to shed it at this time. I would do the trade in a heartbeat but it just seems too good to be true. The Hornets just never seem to come out on the good end of trades.

TopherPrice
TopherPrice

I had heard the same rumors about them wanting to take on salary in exchange for high quality (read this as picks 6-20) picks. They have been checking the market for teams looking to unload some expirings and potential long term smaller (~4 mill) for younger players teams wish to dump. However, the important thing to remember is that this thought process is not diametrically apposed to the desire to move over-valued players not in the plans for their rebuild. In fact I would think moving such players (Jamison and Mo) would be borderline necessary. If they could move Jamison they would only have $33M in salary next year without any other moves. That is monster for a team that might take on an additional $10 in junk contracts to get a couple high first round picks. Then year after next they would should have a good young core with more picks coming and be in the $30M salary range again. I think the idea that they are looking to take on salary actually strengthens the case they think they can move Jamison to the Hornets in exchange for losing a 28-30 pick, possibly a 33rd pick, a decent PG, and $3 million in cash. Then all they need to do is find someone to take Mo and they are really in the salary clear.

Hornet Seantonio
Hornet Seantonio

dude you are totally right man. I mean the cavs have such a strong core right now and they look to be headed in the right place. Logical thing to do is take on more salary so they can maintain this groove they in right now. Genius

Jordan
Jordan

If Nuggets deal Melo to Nets, we can get Troy Murphy because they said they'll find a third team to trade with and we would get murphy and a 1st round Nets pick. Not bad. Maybe toss JR in there too.

HiMyNameisSteven
HiMyNameisSteven

i think we should just wait till melo gets traded to the nets... which seems very likeely. Murphy is going to get bought out by the nuggets and we offer him a solid deal.... we keep what we have defensively and get a boost with troy coming in off the bench

Hornet Seantonio
Hornet Seantonio

what gerry v said was they were looking for a third team to take troy.

Crazed2APoint
Crazed2APoint

I had came up with a kinda sorta similar trade to you Sincerely Yours96 http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=4gqka93 We get Antawn Jamison Ramon Sessions Joey Graham Gerald Wallace Cavs get Trevor Ariza Jarret Jack Jason Smith / or Marco Belinelli (Depending on if we rather keep a big or a small. I'd rather it be Smith so that we can keep some 3 point shooters on the team) David Anderson Bobcats get Marcus Thornton Q-Pon Jamario Moon Marcus Banks I hate putting Thornton in this trade, but just tryin to make it as realistic as possible. and in order to get bobcats to listen and get in on this deal Thornton might be what it takes.

JS
JS

Does anyone know if Iguodala is still available?...Sixers could be a possible 3rd party

Hornet
Hornet

Iguodala is no longer available. Philly is playing really well now and Turner has shown nothing special at all.

JS
JS

Or even tayshaun...

Sincerely Yours96
Sincerely Yours96

Unfortunately not. Sixers are playing good bball right now and they arent looking to deal him anymore. They think they have a playoff team so theyre gonna try and make it work

sportnlife
sportnlife

All this stuff sounds interesting, but these trade scenarios give us more scoring at the expense of finding another big who can guard the rim. How far can that take us in the West? Is the thinking that we only use a piece of the trade exception now, cause those things will be more valuable with a hard cap coming, or could we maybe dangle the rest of it to pick up a serviceable 4/5?

Hornets686
Hornets686

Hornets get: Gerald Wallace D.J. Augustin Kwame Brown Antawn Jamison Cavs 2nd Rounder Bobcats get: Marco Belinelli/Marcus Thornton Jason Smith Ramon Sessions Jamario Moon Heats 1st Rounder Cavs get: Trevor Ariza Marcus Banks Jarrett Jack David Andersen

Jordan
Jordan

Earlier in the season everyone was bashing Ariza, now that he might be traded everyone loves him. Just saying. You know who you are

Hornet
Hornet

Ariza played big in January though. If his play in Jan never happened I doubt we care much.

Hornet
Hornet

I'm saying ever since January. If I had asked you back in December if we were trading Ariza for Jamison, would you care much if we giving away Ariza?

Hornet Seantonio
Hornet Seantonio

I would, ever since LA hes been one of my favorite players

Michael McNamara
Michael McNamara

Final point to consider, and then I am done on this trade: How does the fact that Jamison is earning 15 million next year effect the team's negotiations with David West? From all reports, the Hornets are more than willing to give him something in the ball park of 4 years/40 million, but would Jamison effect that at all? It is easy to be a GM from your couch, but the reality of it is hard. Join us all day on February 24th as we will have a live chat heading up to the deadline. Should be a fascinating couple of hours, start planning your excuses for staying home from work NOW!

Hornet Seantonio
Hornet Seantonio

staying homes for poons i want money. ill join the chat from work ;-)

Michael McNamara
Michael McNamara

Also, just to note- the trade increases our payroll by 7 million next year (and 9 if you count the two picks), but decreases the payroll by almost 9 million the following year, which is the year that CP3 can opt out. This trade could allow the Hornets to enter that year with only Okafor, a resigned West (hopefully), and a couple young guys on rookie contracts on the books. That could mean resigning CP3 and adding another star, if CP3 can recruit one. Wishful thinking, but it is crucial to note that this trade could open the door for increased flexibility in the summer of 2012, at the expense of increased flexibility this year. And to add onto the "wishful thinking", the Hornets would love to find a way to make Gerald Wallace the SF we get back in this deal, via three-team trade. I don't even want to speculate, but if you guys would love to throw out some proposals, I will happily read. If the Hornets can somehow add Ariza and Jamison without going over the tax, I would be all for it. Just don't see how it gets done.

Hornet
Hornet

Chris Paul + Dwight :D

Michael McNamara
Michael McNamara

Quick update, here is the exact proposal Cleveland has on the table for us: Jamario Moon, Ramon Sessions, Jamison, 1 Heat first rounder of our choice, Cleveland's 2011 2nd rounder, cash (unspecified amount) for Ariza, Banks, Jack, and Anderson The Hornets still want to bring in another team or would like to work out a deal where they get a more viable starting SF, but supposedly like the upgrades of Jamison and Session, who bring more scoring off the bench. Cleveland's pick would likely be the first pick of the second round, which could produce value, and the Heat pick along with the cash help ease the blow of Antawn's huge salary next year. The Hornets also believe that Jamison can play with West and Okafor to close out games and Moon can give them similar defensive production to Ariza in the middle stages of the game. I still think this deal is only 15-20%, but I am most interested by the fact that Ariza and Jack are on the table. Is Sessions an improvement over Jack? The numbers say yes, but I am not so sure, although he does have a more favorable contract. Paul might not like to see Jack go, but I am sure Monty and Dell will tell him that Jack will get more playing time in Cleveland. Also, might a seperate trade in which the Hornets land Paul's other buddy JR Smith ease his worries. Marco and Jason Smith for JR Smith? CP3/ Sessions Green/ Smith/ MT5 Moon/Jamison/Q-Pon West/ Jamison Okafor/ Gray/Mbenga Smith and Jamison would likely play 30 minutes at SF, with Moon just being a spot player. That combo, along with Sessions upgrades the offense considerably- but isn't this supposed to be a defensive team? 6 days until the deadline!

NOH Domination
NOH Domination

hahaha when has CP and JR ever been friends? Pretty sure JR was shipped out of town in the first place for the exact opposite.

B Mac
B Mac

I think you were lied to: Sources say Cleveland, in general, is telling teams that it's willing to take on long-term salary in a trade -- something you don't hear often these days, with so much fear about the next labor agreement and how restrictive it could be -- but only if a quality prospect or draft pick is attached. The Cavs aren't interested in cap-clearing deals. They obviously need talent ... http://www.stepienrules.com/2011-articles/january/cavs-lose-again-to-bulls.html and even more damning... Since the start of February, Sessions is averaging 19.6 points and 8.9 assists in eight games. He had a season-high 32 points and nine assists after replacing an injured Williams less than four minutes into Wednesday's stunning win over the Los Angeles Lakers. All of those performances have increased his stock around the league, but the Cavs would want at least a young impact player on a good contract, a first-round pick or both in exchange http://www.ohio.com/sports/116457023.html That trade definitely does not match up with the path that the Cavs have been informing everyone they are going down. Seems like the complete opposite actually. I dont believe it.

Hornet Seantonio
Hornet Seantonio

42 you gonna make me lose my mind. Up IN here UP IN HERE!

42
42

Don't make me go all out . . . You wouldn't like me when I go all out . . .

TopherPrice
TopherPrice

BMac: I am guessing you are a Cavs fan that has run across this post. I only say that because of those who frequent this blog, and has paid close attention, it has become increasingly clear that McNamara's source is in the Cavs front office. This is the first time his information about the Hornets from his unidentified "Eastern Conference front office" source has involved the Cavs. However, in past discussions about the Hornets it seems like it was the Cavs front office. Now these talks come out with A LOT of specific details. He will never say for sure, as well he shouldn't, but I think it has become an easy assumption. His source has been pretty spot on in the past with regards to the Hornets maneuvers. So I would tend to think there is more than a grain of truth in these trade talks. You are most likely correct that they value Sessions very highly. I would think so highly that they would only move him for the assets that you point out, or to get out from under an over-valued long term player that is not part of a rebuild like Jamison. Don't kid yourself, getting out from under $15m for a player next year is worth more than a first round pick. Even if the trade doesn't go through, it doesn't mean that McNamara's source is poor or lying to him. If I were you though, as a Cavs fan I would keep an eye on this blog for an idea of what your team is doing.

42
42

I still think topher is one of the smartest fellas we have on here, and we have alot of smart people up in here, up in here.

andy
andy

Not only do the numbers say sessions is an upgrade over Jack, Hollinger, my eyes, the contract, and the fact that he's well known as a great pick-and-roll PG means that he'll bring alot more stability to the backup PG position, as our schemes wouldn't have to change a bit. Jamison flat out doesn't turn the ball over, and is great as a spot-up guy. This trade would be a homerun for the hornets, and turns our expiring deals into tradeable assets in the future. People want sessions now and Jamison as an expiring will be quite valuable as well.

AgentZiko
AgentZiko

I agree Steven. I'm hesitant on giving him up. He's REALLY jelling well with CP right now. To move him means we'll be adding guys who need 40-45 teams to learn to jell with him.

andy
andy

Defense aside, you can't have 7mil/yr locked up for 4 years for a guy with an 11 PER if you're a small market team. Whether it helps on the court remains to be seen, but it certainly helps from a cap management standpoint unless as ryan alluded that Jamison's albatross next year hurts us in resigning DWest.

HiMyNameisSteven
HiMyNameisSteven

i like sessions alot and think he is better than jack... i just think this move is way to offensive minded given we are giving up our most versitile defensive player in ariza.... i honestly really like ariza and think he is key to this teams success. although this trade is very intriguing.. not too high on moon and the essentially 2 2nd round picks given they will be around the 30th pick each but jamison is a great fit . just honestly dont think we should give up ariza

Hornet Seantonio
Hornet Seantonio

you the man mac

Hornet Seantonio
Hornet Seantonio

need more time to grind the thought of the trade in my brain before i make a decision on how i feel, at work but glad you gettin us the info ps. i love ariza

Mr.C
Mr.C

CP3 needs to play better thats the bottom line!!! 2yrs ago I watched him win games by himself!!!

TopherPrice
TopherPrice

http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=48fu9yl Two ideas I had. My biggest problem, is I think the team defense takes a hit by losing Ariza. Before his return I believe the numbers were something like this. Before Mek went down, the hornets were holding teams to 92 ppg, then in the games following up to Ariza's injury the Hornets allowed 100ppg. Then when Trevor went down, allowed 102ppg until his return. Now we are back to around 99ppg. So it seems obvious that his perimeter defense is worth around 2-3 ppg. WE NEED MEK BACK! (sorry for the sidebar) I cant see there being any way they would give up Hickson, as he is someone you can move forward with as a great compliment to Varejao. But if they are willing to possibly give up multiple 1st rounders, even if they are pick 27+ Heat picks, they might be willing to swap Jack for Sessions. This gives us an upgrade at backup PG and eases long-term salary tied up in Jack. i wish there was a way to do the trade without losing Ariza, but that would require moving Jack, Banks, Green, Andersen, AND shed Gray or Mbenga to stay under the tax. So we would have to have another team willing to take 2 of the players involved. It just seems pretty wild of a trade without Ariza. I don't know if I like it, time will tell.

bgalella
bgalella

Ariza has been a bust, moving him isn't that big of a deal.

42
42

He has provided a great deal to this team. Moving him should be well-considered, but I don't consider him untouchable. We are at that rare good, thin team. We have to change the thin part, but we have to do it while fearing we'll spoil that good part. If Ariza is worth something to someone else, we have to consider moving him. I think we need the best defenders we can get on the wings of the players that can get 1.25 points per shot at least.

AgentZiko
AgentZiko

I can understand it from that point 42, but if I'm moving him, I'd want something of WORTH back. Jamario Moon? Really? A lot of you are also high on Gerald Wallace. I'm not. He is pretty injury prone, and HASNT been injured this season yet. I can just picture it, "in his debut with the Hornets, Gerald Wallace suffered a severe high ankle sprain while attempting a lob pass from Chris Paul, and will miss the next 3 weeks".

42
42

I think any deal worth doing will involve Ariza or Thornton. I do not believe the converse to be true in all cases. I don't know enough to evaluate this deal, but the money side gives me pause.

Trackbacks

  1. [...] with some interesting information regarding the Hornets’ trade possibilities. You can see his original post here. About half an hour ago, he gave us an update on what he has heard about discussions between the [...]