The Wolves beat the Hornets

By:
Published: February 7, 2011

I could mouth the platitude that “sometimes you have nights like this”.  It’s true, the Wolves don’t shoot like that normally.  But does that make anyone feel better?  Not really.  The Hornets still lost to the freakin’ 11-win Timberwolves.  Again.  Sigh.

The Wolves hit the Hornets with a one-two punch, drilling their outside shots and taking advantage of the Hornets limited big men on the inside all game long.  The Hornets had their chances,  using turnovers to stay in the game, but they simply failed to hit shots.  Any sort of shots.  Open shots, floaters, contested layups, jumpers, mid-range shots.  It was equal opportunity misses.

You want to blame the refs?  I don’t.  The Hornets had five straight posessions down seven in the third - and generated an open shot on every one of them.  They produced zero points.   I’m talking wide open shots.  On three of them, no Minnesota player even ran at them.  Make your shots – then come talk to me about the refs giving you problems.

In the end, Monty tried everyone, and everyone was atrocious. 

Okay, Pavlovic and Paul weren’t atrocious.  I think Pavlovic was very solid defensively.  Once he figures out his spots on the floor on offense, he could be worth keeping around.

Jarrett Jack makes me weep.

I had some other observations early in the game, but I’m not really up to writing them right now.  I’ll hold them for the podcast.  Right now, I’m going to go murder some necromorphs and dream of better days when Okafor was around to at least make the paint moderately unpleasant.

135 comments
SJ
SJ

If Monty want's an offensively inept player who brings nothing to the 2 guard spot but defense, just switch Pavlovic there once Ariza is back. Marco has no place on this team. He misses wide open looks and his defense can't touch Pavlovic's. The difference between the two of them is Pavlovic will be like Morris Peterson, he will make the extra pass when he is open, while Marco will brick it. I rarely post on this site, but I had said it once before and I'll say it again, the Hornets are a one trick Pony when the 2 guard can't drive to the hole or sink open 3s. Most importantly, Monty is a terrible head coach. Yeah, he's a great defensive coach, too bad offense and understanding rotations are involved in coaching also. Marcus needs to be the first guy off the bench no questions asked. He can come in late in the first with instant offense as an advantage. He can stay in early in the second to facilitate our offense when our Vanilla PF's can't hit their jumpers. Finally do NOT play him with JJ. JJ is just a terrible version of what Marcus is on this team. Someone who pounds the ball too much but lacks the ability to get to (let alone finish) around the rim. He rarely passes, and I have seen him miss open shooters that Paul would have no problem finding. Trading away Bayless was the worst mistake the Hornets made this season. He was a much better backup PG than Jack. Jack needs to go play for some terrible team and do mediocre to feel good about himself. The Hornets need some like Luke Ridnour, JJ Barrea, Sebastian Telfair, or (best option) Boobie Gibson running back up point. Someone used to playing 10-15 mins a game, and being effective at it.

paul
paul

Um, getting a little worse than usual here. The problem is not just the players. Yes, we don't have the talent the top teams have. Yes, we do have a young team and an even younger coach. Both were out played last night, but it needs to be qualified. The coach should never lose games. Players are facing guys who are played millions to beat you every night. This isn't high school or college. There are players making more than most humans playing against you. So you can be beaten. Not so the coach. Last night Monty was out coached....I THINK. I say I think because we do not know the full story. We most likely never do. I think he screwed up with his matchups. Keeping Smith in, after being sick AND EVERBODY knows he can't play center, especially against giants of which there were two last night...was wrong. Now, perhaps Gray was hurting...dunno. But I saw the game, I know the stats. When Gray was in, their inside game became null and their game became an outside 3 point schooling. THAT's where we got beat. Our outside defense sucked. And coach allowed us to be killed inside the 4th qtr on. It was pathetic watching them dunk and dunk and dunk on us. All the while Gray sat. MBenga, OK...use him until he fouls out or Gray can come back. But to watch him concentrate on blocking shots instead of BLOCKING OUT is maddening. Monty looked like a deer in headlights last night. Now, if your gonna reply to this, try not to be sophmoric and keep to the thoughtful and meaningful...not the cussing or ranting.

Monty'sDoghouse
Monty'sDoghouse

Oh God. Ziko has hijacked the thread. I have officially stopped reading. Marco does need to go for one reason and one reason alone. Monty will not be tempted to play some maroon that's not worth the playing time he's getting. And don't give me the quoting Paul crap. You are literally one of the biggest liars I have ever met. On top of it, you do it all to try to please people 2000 miles away from you on the INTERNET. Chris Paul did not say that JJ would start on 20 teams in this league. You did. I didn't put those words in your mouth. If you are still sticking by Marco being a legitimate SG in this league, you are as much up Monty's ass as I am Marcus'. Get over it. At least I can admit I'm up Marcus' ass constantly.

OkiThor
OkiThor

Whatever happened to those fast break points MT5 got last year? Speed and the ability to finish are to his advantage. Seems like this year everyone is scared and just throws the ball back to CP3 even if Paul is standing still 15 ft behind them. Marco is an average defender and not a good fit for us offensively. He can't hit the open jumper, lacks confidence, can't create his own shot or shots for others. MT5 should start. Marco is a 3rd guard on the Golden State Warriors and Toronto Raptors.

Joe Gerrity
Joe Gerrity

The fast break points are mostly gone because of the team rebounding Monty implemented. Frankly, I think it's for the best. Without that approach there is no way that the Hornets would be out-rebounding their opposition so far this year.

OkiThor
OkiThor

Yeah, I have seen MT5 and others crashing the defensive boards a lot more then last year. Makes sense Joe.

JS
JS

Steven how do you watch your games online. I live in Boston and I struggle with watchin these hornets games. Btw everyone go vote for the hornets game for fan night next Tuesday on nbatv pleeeeeeeeeeeease!!!!

AgentZiko
AgentZiko

I watch them on NBA League Pass on my computer JS. If they are on NBA TV, or nationally televised (LoL) I watch them on TV.

JS
JS

thanks for the info i need to look into league pass

PeeDee
PeeDee

this is the best hornets website by far.... yall follow me on twitter @PeeDeeDoakes

JayRey
JayRey

Hey does anybody know the timetable on Ariza's and Okafor's return??? With them back it will definitely ease the pain of these last few games.

42
42

Check the Bee Bite from today.

L_REAZY
L_REAZY

Damn ... 'Agent Ziko' is on the money with that assesment of MT5. You pretty much stated what I've been trying to convey to 'HiMyFirstNameis Steven' and others for months, but finally gave up trying to prove my point! I wasn't trying to be a jerk ... I actually think '...Steven' and others have great points, but they sort of go too far with the Marcus Thornton support! Well put Agent Ziko .... well put!!! L_REAZY

HiMyNameisSteven
HiMyNameisSteven

L Reazy and ziko---- there is no way after watching the past few weeks you guys can both say marcus is not better than marco. there is no way in hell you can believe that or throw any stats out there to convince me otherwise. it is so blatently obvious that marcus is the best option we have at the 2 and it is ridiculous that he doesnt get playing tiome with the starters like terry does, like harden does, like crawford does, like jr does. all of those guys get many minutes with starters come in half way through the 1st quarter and play the mojority of the minutes. if you ask anybody in the league if they would love to have a jason terry of jamal crawford on there team you would probably get a 99% yes from anyone in the league. people can argue that terry and crawford have had all0star caliber seasons but do not get the nod since they come off the bench. i never said i hated the fact that marcus comes off the bench but when he gets his first playing time with 5 min left in the second and only plays a total of 12 mintues its just plain stupid. give him the option to put us in leads rather than being forced to try and make come backs for us. thats why im a big marcus fan because i truly think he is the one player outside of the big 3 (mek, chris and west) that can make a big difference for us when playoff time comes around, and from having to watch all hornets games online and getting to listen to other analysts who call the games they all agree marcus has tons of potential and could be a key contributor come playoff time beeeee easy go marcus

HiMyNameisSteven
HiMyNameisSteven

ziko i dont disagree with you but the problem is he doesnt get 6th man minutes... he is generally our last bench player to get pt and it makes no sense. honestly i do not see much of an advantage for belly on the defensive end. he isnt as quick he misses just as many rotations and the only thing he does better is body up people because he is bigger.... i dont mind thorton being 6th man and getting the same situational minutes as terry and crawford but he doesnt get those minutes and thats the main issue. he is playing out there with jack anderson gray q pon and mbendga those kind of players and of course he is going to seem less effecient because he is forced to go out and make plays... i know ive seen some stats out there that say what the best +/- 5 man rotation the hornets throw out there and can swear ive seen the best 5 man team is marcus paul d west mek and ariza. the problem is that this 5 man combo doesnt get many mintues together unless its late in the 4th when we are in close games against good teams. yes i love those minutes when marcus gets to play with the big boys but he needs to get many more minutes with our best players.... i say 25-30 minutes total a game and at least 15-20 minutes with either mek and west, mek and chris, or chris and west out there

AgentZiko
AgentZiko

Dude, here's what you guys keep overlooking. I have NEVER said Marco is better than Marcus. I think Marco is a better defender. But I KNOW Marcus is the better player. All I have ever said is that Marcus is a REALLY GOOD 6th man type of a player. People have dubbed him a PERENNIAL All Star and Super Star, and he's NOT one dude. Steven, I WANT him to get PT. The way you described Crawford, Smith, Terry. Those are the minutes I want Thornton to get. I have said a million times I think Green should get less minutes and Thornton should play more. I think Thornton is a GREAT 6th man. And thats what I want him to be. He SHOULD get more minutes. But not as a starter. That is ALL I have said, but people keep misconstruing what I'm saying.

QueenBee
QueenBee

Who here on this forum has claimed Marcus Thornton to be a superstar/All-Star? I'd like to know who. After last season most figured Thornton would at least have a chance at a 6th Man of the Year award. Yes, like Jason Terry or Manu Ginobili. There is absolutely NOTHING with being compared to those guys. To achieve that though, you have to actually be the '6th man' off of your bench. Most times if he gets off the bench at all, he's like the 8th or 9th man off the bench.

TopherPrice
TopherPrice

I will readily admit, as anyone who cared to take the time to hit the "older articles" link enough to look at last offseason's posts, I thought Marcus could be a top 10 SG in the league. Hell, as I pointed out then and someone in this thread pointed out, he was top 9 last year in PER. I had crunched the numbers during the offseason, and when he started he was actually the #6th rated SG last year. I didn't expect such a regression, but then again I didn't expect a coach like Monty that would be a "defense at all cost" kind of guy. I am not knocking that approach when taking over a team like the Hornets. Sometimes you need to shock the hell out of a team to reverse the pattern of play that had lead to the kind of regression that the Hornets were under. So now that the honeymoon is over for me, I honestly think that Marcus could still be a consistent top 10 SG given another 2 or 3 years to develop. The important thing is, HE DOES NOT NEED TO START TO BE THIS PLAYER. I think, long term he is best suited to be a 6th man. I think he will flourish in that roll with continued work and improvement on defense. With more court time, as in getting 25-30 mpg off the bench he will be that guy I thought he could be. The comparisons to Jet and Manu, in my opinion, are what he should be shooting towards. Marcus will never be Kobe or Wade. That doesn't mean he can't be top 10 at his position while coming off the bench. Manu was the #2 SG in the league last season, OFF THE BENCH. Ziko, and others, may think I am bonkers but I think Marcus could some day achieve Manu-level PER and contribution to a team consistently. He does need to continue to improve on defense and work on his game as hard as CP3 does in order to get there, but I think that is his ceiling. Does that make him a perennial All-Star, nope. But it does make him a guy most anyone pick to be on their team over all but around 5 SG in the league.

QueenBee
QueenBee

I meant there is absolutely NOTHING WRONG with being compared to those guys.

JS
JS

How about that cut over the middle Quincy had when CP3 hit him. You can see his basketball IQ is def up there.

AgentZiko
AgentZiko

Cao di Bene. Parli Italiano? Isn't that the funny part? Bene mentioned earlier that last night Marcus Thornton had a -12 on the court. Marco had a +4. Yet "Marco has to go", and "Marco does NOTHING for this team". So ridiculous. I'm starting to wonder. Anyone take issue with Marco being the only white/caucasian/euro guy to start? Or is it simply that he starts ahead of Marcus?

QueenBee
QueenBee

"Anyone take issue with Marco being the only white/caucasian/euro guy to start?" I certainly don't. Certainly didn't have an issue with Peja starting either. But the way Beli's been shooting lately, I think Peja can hit those shots sitting on the bench. LOL. I'm sorry but I just don't see how a guy that plays a shooting guard position, starting shooting guard to boot, fails to knock down so many open shots. Would he do better hitting contested shots? I would think if you're set up to be so wide open as he often is, he'd be able to knock down more of those shots. We need at least 3 offensive players in our starting lineup. We already have CP3 and West. We need one more. Meka and Trev are both defensive players. So that leaves getting more offensively from that other position. I'm not worrying about who starts and who finishes. I just want whomever is on the court in a Hornets uni to be productive.

JCS
JCS

@AgentZiko I'm not going to write any names or point a finger, but I will say just as a blanket statement; sports fans from smaller markets view their teams and players differently than those from larger markets. So those from Memphis or NOLA, probably aren't going to think the same way as those from Chicago or LA.

42
42

Ziko, I'm not going mention mention anyone by name so I can't be accused of actually insulting anyone in particular, but some fans . . . you know . . . those people . . . are just wrong and can't help it; they're just born that way. Their brains can't handle the fine points. This is in no way reminiscent of anything ever said about anyone. Remember, this is not insulting. I said so, after all.

AgentZiko
AgentZiko

QueenBee. Last night, Marcus played 13 minutes, and was a -12 on the court. Marco played 28 and was a +4. Only 2 players had a higher +/- ratio and that was West, and Paul. Yes he was 6-16. Yes he has been struggling since he hurt his ankle and hasn't played as well as he did in the first part of the year. But some of the bashing is honestly ridiculous. It's just not logical. In the first meeting against the Lakers, Marco played 27 minutes, had 17 points on 5-11 shooting, with 3-4 on threes, and 4-4 FTs. Yet he got BASHED in the comments after the game because Marcus Thornton had a DNP that game? As if it was Marco's fault? Or what about the game against the Warriors when Marco had 11 points and 4 assists on 5-8 shooting and played 21 minutes, and Marcus went 4-10 and had 8 points and 3 assists. What was the talk of the town? Go check. "Marcus should have played more". And "He played SOOO hard". The comments to me seem so pathetic and unwarranted and biased. When I root for this team, I want the WHOLE team to do good. I really think some people are more concerned for Marcus rather than the team. Thats the only thing I take issue with. But I too just want whomever is on the court to be productive. And last nite, even though he did score 7 points on his 3-6 shooting, he was NOT more productive than Marco was because the team struggled defensively when he was in. -12 proves that.

Hornets fan from KC
Hornets fan from KC

One question AgentZiko when the Hornets need a basket who would you rather have the ball in his hands Marcus or Marco? List me the starting SG's in the league that are worse then Marco. His big attribute is he can defend? I can take Ariza's poor FG% because he can defend and drive to the basket. If you are saying that Marco's strong point and value to the team is his defense that is comical. He is not valuable because of his outside shot. People defend Marcus because he can take over and win the Hornets ball games period. Marco has not and will not even come close to propelling the Hornets to a win. Once again he is one of the worst starting SG in the league and will not be in the NBA in two years. When you can't make it in Golden State and Toronto there is an issue. If Monty wants Marco playing 8-10 mins a game ok. Marcus needs 30. I know you are grimacing just like the rest of us everytime Marco launches a shot.

AgentZiko
AgentZiko

I wouldn't want either with the ball in their hands. Either of those guys have the ball in their hands at the end of the game, we lose. That's my honest opinion. I want CP or D West with the ball in their hands. No one else after that. It's one things for CP to create and dish to one of those 2 guys, in which case I'd settle for either taking that shot. In fact, on a CATCH AND SHOOT, I'd rather have Marco take it than Marcus. As for "Marcus needs 30". If he "needs" it so bad... Why isn't he getting it? You guys keep talking about this kid like he's some super star, and he's not. I am willing to bet ANY of you, that Marcus will NEVER EVER be an All Star in this league. He's just a scorer. Just like Jason Terry. JR Smith. and Jamal Crawford. I REALLY like Marcus. But I think you guys have terrible standards for him. When he does well, you guys toot your horns like its a european wedding. When he does bad, you ONLY point out the good things he did, but neglect to call out his bad points. The writers on this blog specifically wrote an entire article about how you guys "SEE WHAT YOU WANT TO SEE" when it comes to Marcus Thornton. I found it absolutely comical how it couldn't sink in for you guys that it was practically a heat check. Instead you guys continued with your old ways. Look KC. I see great value in both Marco and Marcus. I have said from the start of the season, next to CP, DWest, and maybe now Okafor since he's been playing so much better, that Marcus has the highest trade value on this team. But that doesn't mean he has to start and play 30 minutes. I DO think he should play more than Willie Green. But I also know that Monty is implementing a SYSTEM. Similar situations: Jason Terry is a MUCH better scorer than Deshaun Stevenson, but Terry comes off the bench to give the Mavs scoring punch. James Harden is a MUCH better scorer than Thabo Sefolosha is, but Thabo starts to better balance the first unit. Jamal Crawford is a MUCH better scorer than Marvin Williams, but Williams starts to give Atlanta more length in thier short starting lineup. JR Smith is a MUCH better scorer and game changer than Aaron Afflalo is but Smith comes of the bench so that he doesn't take as many shot attempts away from Billups and Melo. You guys are so hard on Monty, yet the guy does the right things. He is having a HISTORIC season defensively, yet you prefer Bower? That's embarrassing. We have a GREAT record and have been playing great team basketball yet you're focused on Marcus Thornton getting "his" rather than the team winning. That's stupid to me. Makes no sense. As for "grimacing". I DON'T grimace when Marco shoots. I get excited and hope he makes his shots so that we do better as a TEAM. Wanna know when I DO grimace? When Marcus goes on a 1-4 fastbreak and pulls up for a 3 pointer. That's STUPID basketball, and that gets him on the bench. I want to see this TEAM do well. I don't want to see Marcus on the bench. I want EVERYONE to play as well as possible.

AgentZiko
AgentZiko

42. I think Jack can help us too. But I think someone else would help us more.

AgentZiko
AgentZiko

I really like Sasha on this team. I think if given time, he can be a GREAT back up SF for us. If he learns to find his spots, and continues that hustle defense, he really provides us with some much needed size at the position. Quincy is gonna be great. But he's really undersized as a SF, and I think he's more of a SG. Sasha's a LEGIT 6'7, deceivingly long, and has a lot of power in his lower body, like most Slavs do. I really hope he gets signed for the rest of the season. I think he'd be a great help to us. And that was a GREAT block. Crazy to see he had 4 of them.

TopherPrice
TopherPrice

You would... SLAVIC- HOMER. ;) j/k I have been really impressed with him defensively. But Ziko, as an ex-player it has to kill you to watch that epic-ly slllllllooooooow release on his jumper. Man, you could brew a pot of tea, if one was so inclined and/or British-y enough, in the time it takes him to get that shot from his waist to release. You said that you follow him, is that normal for him or is that something new. GOD HE IS SLOW. That might explain how he was blocked 2 or 3 times on open jumpers. haha But I do like what he brings to the table. I think he would be necessary come playoffs and would allow Monty to not have to go with Green or Belly at the backup 3 if Q is off on a given night. Just very good defensive instincts and desire to make an impact.

Bee-fense
Bee-fense

Guys, I think everybody's getting all worked up over nothing. Yeah, we lost to the Wolves, but we were without our best defender(Ariza) best shot-blocker/rebounder(Okafor), and several of our guards are battling ankle injuries. The way I see it, the more time that Emeka and Trevor are out, the more experience the bench gets. i.e., Gray, Smith, Q-Pon and Sasha. We'll hobble into the All-Star break, then get healthy and start kicking butts again. All the extra playing time that the bench gets now, can only help us come playoff time. I noticed a lot of Bellinelli bashing going on, as if he's to blame for our losing games this past week. Yeah, he's in a shooting funk, but the only way out of a shooting funk is to keep chucking up shots. In the meantime, what would demoting him to the bench do? He's gotta be low in confidence right now, and that might destroy what little he had left. No matter which side of the Marcus/Marco debate you're on, we're going to need both of them to have any shot of winning a playoff series. I believe Monty knows exactly what he's doing as far as rotations go. On a side note, congratulations to the now record-holding coach of the Cavaliers. Congrats Byron Scott, I always knew you had it in you.

L_Reazy
L_Reazy

The Hornets are actively shopping Antwann Jamison according to Realgm.com Marcus Banks, David Andersen, Jason Smith, & Willie Green for Antwann Jamison & Ryan Hollins F-West, F-Ariza, C-Okafor, G-Belinelli, G-Paul F-Jamison, F-Palvovic, C-Hollins, G-Thornton, G-Jack L_REAZY

AgentZiko
AgentZiko

Where did you get this info Reazy?

AgentZiko
AgentZiko

Just now saw the realgm.com I read on ESPN insider that the Hornets are interested: UPDATE: ESPN's Marc Stein chimed in on Jamison and the Hornets in Tuesday's Daily Dime, writing that New Orleans "has a level or interest in [him]." But Stein writes that sources "expressed skepticism that a suitable deal can be assembled before the deadline." Further, Stein reports the Cavs may not see much benefit in buying out his contract if no trade occurs. "With word reaching us this week that the Cavs also see little benefit to buying out Jamison (one of their few coveted assets) if no trade materializes in the next two-plus weeks, odds start to increase that Jamison will be brought back with Scott for the new season -- whenever that might be post-lockout -- given how admirably they've been coping with what's happened since Cleveland's forgotten 7-9 start," wrote Stein.

AgentZiko
AgentZiko

"Marco needs to go." That was your exact line in your first post. What do you think we get from that? I never said Marco was an "elite" defender. He is a really good defender dude. You come out saying he contributes nothing to the team. Thats ridiculous. He fits in REALLY nicely with this group. He isn't having the best year. But I look at him as a piece to the puzzle. As for Jack. You keep putting words in my mouth dude. I'm not defending him. I NEVER liked the Jack trade. I got bashed on this site for complaining about it. In fact, it was 42 and Mike who both argued with me about how much Jack would help this team. I argued these things: -He is too good to play back up minutes -He is USED to playing 30+ minutes a game -He has an attitude, and it will show with lack of minutes -He will take more time from Marcus Thornton because Monty will want to give him more time as a 2 to appease him. I quoted Chris Paul saying "Jack is a starter in this league". Are you seriously going to argue that? Here's what I got a problem with Doghouse. You tend to direct your anger of Marcus not getting enough minutes at the wrong people, and in the wrong situations. You have blamed Monty, Dell Demps, Marco Belinelli, Trevor Ariza, Willie Green, and Jarrett Jack. This makes NO SENSE to me. Every time you come out bashing people, I get defensive not towards the individual, but towards the TEAM. You're directing your comments towards the TEAM. And I think thats just ridiculous. I love this TEAM. Believe it or not, I am SOOO jealous of you that you have season tickets and get to go to all the games. I'd trade that in a HEART beat for all the Laker games, Anaheim Angel Games, Anaheim duck games, UCLA and USC games I go to throughout the year. I want this team to get better. I'd LOVE to just land Dwight Howard and Kevin Durant and win championships left and right, but I know that isn't going to happen. And right now, I don't think ANYTHING is really gonna happen. I think we're gonna be sitting on these guys for the rest of the season, with NO moves being made. So rather than bashing ANYONE, I try to root for EVERYONE to do good. I'm with you on this. Marcus Thornton SHOULD play more. My honest opinion, I'd like to see Marcocus split time at the two evenly, between 25-23 minutes a game each, depending on whos playing better. But Monty likes to go DEEP into his bench and play everyone. Last night Marcus played less because the Wolves are a LONG team. Monty played Marco and Sasha a lot of minutes because he wanted to match the length. I'm not saying I agree with his rotations. I'm saying I get why he had those rotations. The smaller guys played less. Green: 16 minutes Thornton: 13 minutes Jack: 12 minutes. As for Marco. He's struggling right now. He's had a tough time since he rolled his ankle. He's a GOOD shooter, he's just in a funk. I've seen plenty of games where Marcus struggles shooting. I NEVER get mad at him for his percentages. I only get mad about bad shots. If Marcus goes 6-16 while shooting OPEN shots that just weren't falling, then hey, its cool, just an off day. Its one thing to miss open shots, and another to force bad shots. I want to see both Marco and Marcus do good. We NEED that from them. I want EVERYONE to do good. I'm very happy to see David Anderson playing so well as of late. Gray too. I want this TEAM to do well. I think you and I have communication issues Doghouse. We need to bond to clear the air. Fly out to OC CA and I'll take you to any concert you want to see. We can get smashed together, and get the shit kicked out of us in a mosh pit, then walk aimlessly through a parking lot looking for the car we lost the the keys to, screaming lyrics to Got the Life, puking up the hot dogs we bought from a food stand, and laughing our asses off. Sounds like a great time, doesn't it?

42
42

I still think Jack can really help us, but the dude needs to PASS! I read everything you guys write, agree or not.

PeeDee
PeeDee

its like the defense know Jack isnt going to pass the ball but everybody knows that now smh

AgentZiko
AgentZiko

Couldn't help but HAVE to jump in here. Some of this crap is sooo ridiculous. First off, yes, Marcus Thornton has improved his defense. But that DOES NOT now make him a good defender. He's trying harder, and it's a start. But he is still learning his rotations. He is in no way shape or form a better defender than Marco is. The one thing I will give Marcus on defense over Belinelli is that he is a better help side shot blocker. But defense is not just about being "athletic". If you're going to tell me Bruce Bowen was "athletic", then, well... I'm gonna tell you that you're an idiot. Doghouse and MAX, your comments are the most BIASED comments I have ever seen in protecting a player. You guys and NOLABanks are more concerned with trading away players to make more time for Marcus than you are with building a complete team. Thats just ridiculous to me. Here are some numbers for you all. I think this might explain things for us a little better: MARCO BELINELLI: FG%: .408 3FG%: .376 PER: 10.26 MARCUS THORNTON: FG%: .408 3FG%: .360 PER: 13.78 WILLIE GREEN: FG%: .435 3FG%: .320 PER: 9.72 JARRETT JACK: FG%: .371 3FG%: .246 PER: 11.12 Jack's numbers are slightly skewed since he had such time on the Raptors, and wasn't getting significant minutes on this team to effect him too much. But while on the Raptors, I belive his PER was around 14-15. So you see the drop for him. But look at those percentages. Especially the 3FG%. I was not happy about the Jack trade. I didn't think he'd help us because hes USED to starters minutes. To go from 35 minutes a night, down to 10-15 is brutal. It completely takes a player out of rhythm. I don't think he's the right fit for us. We should have a player that is USED to playing 10-15 minutes a night and excelling at it. Bayless fit that, and would have only improved and molded into that roll. Other guys that could too? Beno Udrih. Sebastian Telfair. J.J. Barea. Boobie Gibson. We don't need a superstar back up PG. We need someone to be the right fit. I still don't think Jack is the right fit. And I can see the frustration building on his face, off the bench. As for Willie Green. He's a tough little guy, probably a great Veteran in the locker room. But the guy just chucks and heaves at every half open look he gets. He's a tough defender, but he is also undersized, and doesn't make the smartest decisions on the court. He has a 9.72 PER. The lowest of these four. It's HIS time that I feel should be given to Marcus Thornton. Not Marcos. Ideal situation for this TEAM? Trading Jarrett Jack for a more reliable BACKUP PG, and landing a back up big. Example: Beno Udrih and Jason Thompson for Jarrett Jack and Marcus Banks with added parts if needed. I keep hearing "trade Marco". That makes no sense. We have a really nice tandem here that in due time can be DEADLY. Both these guys are young, and both play their asses off. Unless I'm getting a BIG upgrade, I look to build INTERNALLY.

PeeDee
PeeDee

Marcus had the 9th best "per" out of all Shooting guards last year AS A ROOKIE!!!! ....his minutes been up and down all year...that has to put a player out of rhythm u think? PS we dont even have to trade marco ill be fine if he is just released lol

Pluto D
Pluto D

I may be biased but I have NEVER put MT on the pedestal of a superstar caliber. My comments center around how ridiculous it is to see a building block on this team getting benched in favor of a choke artist who should not play any more than 20 minutes a game. That comment itself might be biased, but I really don't see it any other way. Many people consider PER to be the most telling statistic. MT has the best PER of those players you listed. WHY do we play a worse player in his place?? You gave us the stats, but ignore what you are suggesting. I'm not trying to over-glorify Thornton, but my comments get blown out of proportion because I value him more than our starting SG, who does NOT DO ENOUGH to earn his minutes. He got 28 mins last night and put up 16 shots, making 6 of them. Is that why he played so much? For solid D at best and bad shooting? Always the bad shooting. Wasn't it you who compared MT with Terry? Is Terry NOT a crucial, integral part of that team?

AgentZiko
AgentZiko

See Max/Pluto, this is where we are finally making some ground and are on the same page. For whatever reason, people have dubbed me as a "Marcus Hater". I am NOT one. I actually love the guy. I think he's a great scorer and a really talented kid with a bright future, hopefully with this team. But people here have rooted AGAINST Monty and players like Marco, and Ariza EVEN DURING THE 11-1 STRETCH TO START THE SEASON, just because Marcus didn't get as much time as they would like to see. I am, and always have been, someone who thinks with a TEAM approach. NOT with the focus of an individual. I have NEVER said Marcus ISN'T a crucial and integral part of this TEAM. I think we REALLY need him to play well. Especially as a SCORER off the bench. I've said over and over again I want him to be OUR Jason Terry/Manu Ginobili off the bench. Yet I get ridiculed about that? People have bashed me saying Marcus is a "Perennial All Star" and a "Super Star" in this league, and I personally don't see him as THAT good of a player. If I was coach of this team, I would ALSO bring Marcus off the bench, and I'd have him split time with Marco. Marco to start the games to spread the floor and to play defense and be our Sefolosha/Afflalo, Marcus to finish the games and be our big time scorer. I honestly wouldn't give as much time to Willie Green, who has the lowest PER of that group. That was the point I was trying to prove. I look at Marco and Marcus as a 1-2 punch. MARCOCUS! The problem with all this is we have a really damn good record right now, much better than what ANYONE projected us to have, and we are playing the best defense in the league. So... How do you argue that to Monty? If we were 21-32 and Marcus wasn't playing? Dude, I'd be PISSED. But we're not. We're 32-21, in a tough stretch due to injuries, and were playing DAMN well before the injuries happened. How do you argue that? How do you complain? Look at what people have said about Monty dude. It's honestly ridiculous the scrutiny the guy has received when he REALLY is building something that has the potential to be special. And instead of people looking at it as a team that can be REALLY dangerous come playoff time, and a SERIOUS title contender from the get go next season, people are bashing the players that have put us where we are. Does this make better sense as to what I'm saying? Honest truth Max/Pluto, if I had it my way, I'd have Marcus playing A LOT, and finishing most of, if not all my games. But I look at things from a much broader perspective and try to analyze what this team is trying to build. Look at this team and analyze the MAKE UP of it and compare it to prior Spurs teams when Duncan was the go to guy, and try to remember the systems those teams had in place to make those teams as great as they were. It always took them TIME to build and put the right pieces into place. This team has the make up to do something VERY similar. The difference is that we'd be doing it with very YOUNG pieces, versus the way San Antonio did it with Vets. I have NEVER once said Marco is better than Marcus. But I know we need BOTH of those guys to play well to be a REALLY GOOD team, as opposed to a good one. Because when no matter how good any of us think Marcus is, I KNOW he's not better than Kobe or Ginobili. BUT imagine Max/Pluto, if we get Marco to come in and start playing the way he did to start the year when he averaged 11-14 points a game and play tough defense and wear guys out, and we get Marcus to come in off the bench and bring a SHITLOAD of energy and score 12-17 points a game and just be a thorn in Kobes and Ginobilis side the way Jason Terry has always done. Wouldn't that be AWESOME? I know it can happen. I don't know if it will this year. But I know it can happen because both guys are capable of doing it. I look at this team and what Monty is trying to do and I GET IT. I guess all I'm saying is we need to be a little more patient and let it blossom.

Hornets fan from KC
Hornets fan from KC

Agreed. Trading marco makes no sense because he has zero value. There is nothing about Marco's game that screams deadly. You truely delusial about Marco. He will be out of the league and back in Europe in two years.

AgentZiko
AgentZiko

I will bet you that Marcus Thornton will be traded before Marco Belinelli is back in Europe. Marco will sign a 3 year, $11 million deal this summer. Put me on record calling that.

Monty'sDoghouse
Monty'sDoghouse

I never said trade Marco. I said bench the fool. It's funny that you can make the same excuses for Jack that I make for Thornton and mine are ridiculous. Talk about biased. And now you are down about the Jack trade when you stated he should be our starting SG not even a month and a half ago? Ziko, once again. Take away Marco's mirage beginning to this season and those numbers get SIGNIFICANTLY worse. December 1 - Lakers game (35 games) MARCO BELINELLI FG%: .388 3PT%: .338 PER: >10 It's ok to admit your wrong. We know you have it in you. You are now using Bruce Bowen's lack of athletic ability to prove your point that Marco is an "elite" defender. Holy Cow. Do you re-read any of the throw-up you write in the comments?

JayRey
JayRey

Doghouse seriously bro I think you're the one that likes to misread comments. No where did Ziko say that Marco was an "elite" defender. He was just saying that you don't need to have athleticism to become one. This was said because most of you said athleticism translates to being a better defender which is not true. Bowen was a prime example. I remembered a time not too long ago when Thornton wasn't making shots AT ALL and most of us stood behind him. All I'm trying to say is that with a backcourt of Thornton, Green, Belinelli, and Jack who would be your top 2 choices :) Btw I think Marco can offer so much more than what he has been giving us.

AgentZiko
AgentZiko

P.S. Anyone in their wildest dreams think David Anderson would be the steal of the Peja-Jack trade? LoL.

JS
JS

Yea agreed. Montys a better assistant coach than anything for all his defensive schemes but as far as overall coaching he should probably be taking a back seat and just deal with one aspect of the game. Bellinelli playing as much as he does boggles my mind. As someone mentioned earlier, there is a reason why you never got a chance in your career!!!!