Odom Dominates as Lakers hand the Hornets rare Home loss

Published: December 29, 2010

After last night’s loss against San Antonio, some Hornets fans worried whether Kobe would come out with something to prove, but it wasn’t #24 who killed New Orleans tonight, it was their new 6th man- Mr. Khloe Kardashian himself. Lamar scored a game high 24 points in his first game of the season in which he came off the bench.

Phil Jackson gave Andrew Bynum the start, moving Pau Gasol back to power forward, and the length of those two really bothered the Hornets on both ends of the court. The Lakers started the game pounding the ball inside on offense and pushing the Hornets out of the paint when New Orleans had the ball. In the first 15 minutes, the Lakers had 22 points in the paint and that opened up their outside shooting. Before you knew it, the Lakers were up 59-41 at the half and the game was all but over at that point.

The Lakers finished the game shooting 58.6% from the field and were +20 in rebounding margin, as the Hornets finished with a season low 24 boards. The final score might have read 103-88, but the game wasn’t really that close. Once David West went down with an ankle injury in the second quarter, the Hornets were basically a one-man squad and the Lakers simply had too much size and skill. After watching this game, it is hard to fool yourself into thinking this team is one trade away from being a contender (or as some people believe, simply move MT5 to the starting lineup). The Lakers aren’t even close to running on all cylenders and they just beat the Hornets down like they were a pesky (much) younger brother.

Notes and Observations:

– David West left the court in the second quarter and spent the rest of the half in the locker room. He came back in the third and made a few jumpers, but he just wasn’t the same. Since the Hornets were out of it in the fourth, Monty sat West for the remainder of the game. Kevin Garnett went down with an injury today, so hopefully West can play. If not, we might get that Big Baby/J Smitty match-up we all want to see.

– Trevor Ariza: 1-2, 4 points, 4 fouls, 4 turnovers in 24 minutes. You know, Quincy Pondexter hasn’t been looking too bad.

– Good News: Marco Belinelli had 15 points against a good team. Bad news: He took 16 shots and was 1-6 from three, most of which were wide open. The guy just isn’t a starter on a good team. I met the guy a few times, I like him, I wish him the best, but he is a short or a long term answer for this team.

– Chris Paul was ready to go tonight, scoring 10 points in the first ten minutes and playing with great intensity. It is a joke that people put any blame on this guy- EVER. Kobe goes to the bench up 3 points, he returns and his team is up 18. When has CP3 ever had this luxury? He had a nice starting five in 07-08 that stayed relatively healthy and he led the team to 56 wins and only missed out on MVP because it was Kobe’s time after being robbed himself in the past.

Now Paul has one other guy who shows up night in and night out and a bunch of other guys who would have much lesser roles on elite teams. Okafor would be the Lakers 4th big, Marco wouldn’t see the court on Orlando, Ariza is an energy guy off the bench on a good team, Jason Smith wouldn’t get off the bench for any of the contenders out West- I can go on and on. 11-1 was nice and I am glad it happened, but we have to be real about the talent on this team.

– Matt Barnes is a punk. That’s it and that’s all.

– Coach Williams said he expects WIllie Green to play at some point this week, but the team is giving him his space. He has been helping his family through this tragedy and I hope that we can all show him love when he returns to the Hive.


  1. nikkoewan

    December 29, 2010 at 10:05 pm

    what’s your take on Monty? Still support the dude. but i want to hear from people that know more than i do..

    • QueenBee

      December 29, 2010 at 10:13 pm

      What I’d like to know is what are the jobs of the assistants? Monty is a rookie and he’s supposedly surrounded himself with experienced, veteran coaches. Do they know more than Monty? Can assistant coaches tell a head coach when something is wrong and isn’t working? If they can, and they aren’t, then they are dumb. If they don’t know when something is wrong and isn’t working, then they are dumb.

      • paul

        December 30, 2010 at 5:03 pm

        This is what you really like about Phil Jackson, which is the total list of his good stuff!
        He is one of the best managers in the business.
        By that I mean really good managers know what they cannot do and seek out those that are great at it…then get the F-ing out of the way.
        Ego is THE worst management vice, as well as arrogance and insecurity.
        And new coaches are very insecure…as I guess most coaches are considering their life expectancy.
        Even back in Chicago Phil got the best defensive mind and then allowed him to take the wheel.
        Dunno anything about his bench….other than none played the game and all seem defensive oriented.
        If I am wrong, please feel free to correct me.
        So, being that he is new and defensive minded himself, WHY isn’t there some very historically successful mind on his bench?
        The fact that teams come out and beat up on the Hornets past half time shows me that THEY make adjustments during the break while Monty continues with his basic plan from the meeting the night before.
        Plus, I don’t see his BIG man coach. Every team should have some guy that knows this position and teaches the skills to the Gray, MBenga and Andersen.
        I remember Phil going out and getting this person as do other coaches.

    • Michael McNamara

      December 29, 2010 at 10:23 pm

      I might be the wrong guy to ask because as I stated prior to the start of the season- this is a 40-42 win team based on talent. I praise Monty for the 11-1 start because those guys WAY over achieved and now we see the real team. Does anybody remember us losing by almost 50 to Orlando in the preseason?

      That start disillusioned fans, and I was trying to tell everyone to stay grounded. Now people think that this is an elite team that is being coached poorly, when in fact it has always been an average team talent wise and it was just being coached phoenominally early on and for whatever reason the guys just aren’t going out there and outworking the other team anymore.

      They are like a relatively out of shape guy who entered a marathon, sprinted for the first mile and had the lead, but now of course all the better conditioned athletes are catching up and passing them by.

      This has nothing to do with Monty or CP3, etc. Just like Byron wasn’t a genius when he had a healthy Tyson and Peja and he wasn’t an idiot when he was plagued by injuries. It is all about talent in this league, and the Hornets have average talent.

      • me

        December 30, 2010 at 2:14 pm

        wow, finally someone who know somethings about sports. its a team sport hornets are no way near a ‘championship contending team’ and by the way the Orlando preseason its a great example of how mediocre the hornets are.

    • Caleb

      December 30, 2010 at 12:53 am

      Monty took a very poor defensive team and turned into an excellent one… even if the last two games have been poor defensive performances, on the whole the Hornets have been an elite defensive unit this year. That right there is enough for me to have a ton of respect for the guy. I mean, after last season, many people were convinced that a West/Okafor frontcourt could never work defensively… Monty proved that to be a false notion.

      The Hornets will continue to win games due to Monty’s defensive coaching ability and the abilities of Chris Paul. I still think this can be a 50 win team.

      • QueenBee

        December 30, 2010 at 10:38 am

        He makes references in Marcus Thornton that offense is only one side of the floor. I’d like Monty to know that so is defense. Defense too, is only one side of the floor. He needs to put a better offensive plan in place. I mean it’s not even a middle meeting place between the Hornets offense and defense. They are tops in defense and bottom in offense.

  2. MaxALM

    December 29, 2010 at 10:07 pm

    This team can’t beat anybody. I don’t care if it was the Lakers or not. This was the most opportune time to play against them and it clearly didn’t matter. We look considerably worse each game.

    However, Marco does need to come off the bench now. Our ceiling is higher with Thornton getting starter’s minutes. Not saying he’s God, but it would help to get him the opportunity at this point. Marco ain’t doin jack.

    We need another big man. BAD. Javale McGee is being shopped by the Wizards. We need that type of Center for this team.

  3. QueenBee

    December 29, 2010 at 10:10 pm

    Odumb was playing park ball on the Hornets. Dribbling behind the back and throwing the ball off the backboard to himself to follow it up with a dunk. Are you kidding me? LMAO.

    I’m glad West was able to come back out. I hope it doesn’t blow up on him when he takes that wrapping off tonight. Be ok West!

    Trevor had one really dumb foul where he hacked Artest right in front of the ref. As if he didn’t want to play and hoped that dumb ass foul would get him sent to the bench.

    Also, as I said in the game thread, eff you Phil Jackson and the horse you rode in on.

  4. QueenBee

    December 29, 2010 at 10:14 pm

    I don’t know what Monty’s allegiance is to Marco. He acts like he trusts this guy more than he trusts his own d*mn wife. Marco is a shooting guard that can’t shoot.

  5. QueenBee

    December 29, 2010 at 10:16 pm

    Not to mention the Hornets get treated like peons by officials. When was the last time the Hornets won a game officiated by Tim Donaghy’s buddy Scott Foster?

    • Hornet

      December 29, 2010 at 10:24 pm

      We faced the Lakers. Its to be expected, even at home.

      • QueenBee

        December 29, 2010 at 10:27 pm

        Oh yeah because we’ve never ever beaten the Lakers at home before right? How could I forget.

      • Hornet

        December 29, 2010 at 10:54 pm

        I can’t remember the last time we did… We need Paul to have 30 and 15 nights and West to put up 40 or Peja to drop 10 3’s and Paul 21 dimes to beat LA. Not even exaggerating on what we’ve needed in the past to beat them. Those all happened and we still barely won.

      • QueenBee

        December 29, 2010 at 11:16 pm

        The last time the Hornets beat the Lakers at home was the last time the Lakers played in the NOLA Arena before tonight, 3/29/10.

        And when will other players besides CP and D West need to do more? When will we get to that point? It doesn’t matter that the Lakers are barely beaten. All it takes is 1 point to win or lose a game. The last time the Hornets beat the Lakers at home, CP had 15 and 13. He didn’t have to have 30pts or 21 assists. In that game we had slightly better bench production and D-West playing 45 minutes. When you win or lose a game, there is never an asterisks next to the score saying “*barely won or *barely lost”.

      • QueenBee

        December 29, 2010 at 11:22 pm

        There was no Bynum last time too but the Hornets had Thornton as a starter and he shot the ball better in that game than Belinelli did in tonights. Gasol had 26/22 in that game and the Lakers still lost.

  6. thechosenuno

    December 29, 2010 at 10:16 pm


    That’s all she wrote.

  7. NOLABanks96

    December 29, 2010 at 10:24 pm

    I miss when us and the Lakers were 1 & 2 in the West

  8. mbdtf

    December 29, 2010 at 10:25 pm

    Well this was the first game that I attended. Big crowd. Bad loss. CP3 was trying so hard, yet no one around him seemed to be trying, and if they were they just could not do much right. I really hope he stays in New Orleans, and we can start winning some more games.

    • QueenBee

      December 29, 2010 at 10:33 pm

      Yeah, CP3 looked up for the challenge right off the bat.

      I’m currently watching Blake Griffin and Aminu go to the rim with no regard for human life. I wish the Hornets had players like that. Players that should get to the rim and dunk the h*ll out of it. Instead, we have soft, scared, pansies.

      • Caleb

        December 30, 2010 at 1:13 am

        They aren’t soft, scared pansies. That’s ridiculous. Aminu and especially Griffin just have incredible athleticism.

      • QueenBee

        December 30, 2010 at 10:40 am

        Please, when Emeka should be slamming the ball he’d rather go up with an almost missed layup. Slam the darn ball. I know Aminu and Griffin are more athletic. But Okafor isn’t some old man out there. Heck, even Marcus Camby who is older than Emeka would slam the ball. LOL.

      • Hornets24//7

        December 30, 2010 at 12:36 pm

        when u say dunking soft im assuming you mean okafor… he really does play like a girl i needs to dunk the ball with AUTHORITY not these lisa lesslie dunks lol

  9. NOLABanks96

    December 29, 2010 at 10:27 pm

    Monty needs to think, Marco is short term. Marcus is the future star of this franchise! get it through your head monty Marco i nothing more than a backup

    • QueenBee

      December 29, 2010 at 10:31 pm

      The future star of this franchise? Is that why his name comes up so often in trade rumors?

      • NOLABanks96

        December 29, 2010 at 10:35 pm

        Not sayin he is the Next kobe or anything but he is the best player outside of west & paul. He is a perennial allstar GIVEN THE MINUTES and wat if paul leaves? Thornton is the guy to build around because his potential and scoring & playmaking ability.

      • NOLABanks96

        December 29, 2010 at 10:36 pm

        Ill change that Thornton cud be a top 10 guard in the league

      • QueenBee

        December 29, 2010 at 10:40 pm

        I like Thornton. I really do. But do you really think he is a player to build around? Seriously?

      • NOLABanks96

        December 29, 2010 at 10:45 pm

        Yes. Who else do u see on our team we can do that with excluding West & Paul? If Monty jus lets buckets play his game and not be on his ass for every little thing and gave him minutes MT wud be killin this season

      • AgentZiko

        December 30, 2010 at 9:58 am

        Top 10 guard? NOLA buddy, stop.

        Thornton isn’t that type of calibur player. Now you’re putting him up there with Kobe, Wade, Roy, etc.

        He’s a scorer. A guy who fits in the mold of J.R. Smith, Ben Gordon, Jason Terry. Yes, he can be a GREAT 6th man in this league. But he’s not a serious starter.

        Look at the guy he was matched up against last night, Shannon Brown. Brown obviously bothered Marcus on Defense, has similar athleticism, and like him, is a scorer.

        Thats the kind of guy you need to look at Marcus as. He’s not top 10. Nor will he be.

    • Hornet

      December 29, 2010 at 11:01 pm

      I love Marcus. He is not the long term answer as a starter. At best he’ll be a Jason Terry which is awesome, but he’s not a starter. Here’s his numbers from the past 5 games:

      20 MPG, 8.2 pts, 34.6 FG% (3.4/9.8), 35.7% 3pt (1/2.8), 4 rpg, 1.4 apg, 1.2 TO

      So what do I see from Marcus lately? A ball hog that is only looking for himself to try to put up big numbers. When he gets the ball he waves off Jack and calls for an iso, or either shoots a 3 or drives to the lane and he’s missing his lay ups. His defense has improved but on offense he is being self centered and only looking after himself. That is not how you impress the coach.

      • Caleb

        December 30, 2010 at 12:45 am

        Bah…. I disagree. Marcus hasn’t been good offensively the past few games but he hasn’t been a ball hog either. He’s made a number of good passes lately… unfortunately it doesn’t always show in the assist numbers. Marcus is going to be up and down offensively… that’s the nature of his game, but overall he’s likely going to be productive if gets the minutes.

        Marcus has never seemed like ball hog to me though, not before and not now.

      • MaxALM

        December 30, 2010 at 1:37 am

        Marcus looks for his shot. You said it yourself just now. He’s aggressive. The shots aren’t falling right now. He’s not THE GUY to build around or anything. But what about all those countless games last season and this season where he shoots 9-for-13 on FGs in 25 minutes and has a handful of huge rebounds? Right now I see a group of guys who lack the confidence to be the ones who wear the pants during games. They are too nice. They want to give the other team a nice, friendly competition instead of posterizing them, like most teams hope to do. Marcus is our version of Amare, Melo, Monta Ellis, or Griffin in terms of attitude–a player who isn’t afraid to say “get out of my way.”

        He’s struggled offensively lately, but so has Marco. Marco is a shooter who can play solid D. He’s not making his shots tho, so all we’re getting is solid D. Even that isn’t up to par lately. Marcus I’ve always felt is just more competent, for lack of a better word. Let him be Marcus 2.0 (or even just 1.5) and this team can improve. He’ll grow with the team, instead of trying to catch up.

        Anyway, this team desperately needs another big man or two that can PLAY. Javale McGee…do what you have to do to get him. He’s being shopped by the Wizards. He’s Tyson Chandler 2.0. Ideal fit for this team, I’d gladly give away Okafor for him, if only the Wizards would take him (who knows).

      • BIGBREED

        December 30, 2010 at 9:24 am

        All I know is,
        Last nite MT5 had a 5-on-1 fastbreak by himself(5 Lakers) and he pulled up for 3pt shot. MT5 missing badly on the 3pt attempt, Coach Monty Williams called a TO and ripped into his ass. MT5 didn’t wait for his teammates to get down the floor on the offensive end of the ball, and he pulled up for a 3, all by himself; which is a no-no in basketball!

  10. HiMyNameisSteven

    December 29, 2010 at 10:31 pm

    alright we arent that good…. put ariza and belly together to get a 3… maybe ariza belly 2 first rounders for iggy cuz we need some offense just do… that means we cant trade thorton u just cant he was off again tonight but so was everyone but chris

  11. NOLABanks96

    December 29, 2010 at 10:48 pm

    Gimmie a trade of Bellinelli & Ariza to Sacramento for Jason Thompson, Donte
    Greene, & Jermaine Taylor

    • MaxALM

      December 30, 2010 at 1:50 am

      Good trade in my book. Sacramento is once again in the trade market right now. But that only matters is Demps is too

  12. Mark

    December 29, 2010 at 10:49 pm

    Well, good news, Ariza was 50% tonight. But he was one shot away from being 0% too. An injured Beantown (minus Rondo/Garnett?) as our last 2010 game. Hope we can get to being CONSISTENT next year, meaning beating most teams sub 500 and at least trying against winning teams.

    Watching the Clippers game. This Blake Griffin kid is fun to watch.

    • QueenBee

      December 29, 2010 at 10:54 pm

      pft, wouldn’t surprise me if we see both Rondo AND Garnett. You know players like to return from injury against the Hornets. LOL!! Anyway, we probably don’t know how to win in beantown. Doc will most likely outcoach Monty.

      And talking about next year, we might not even have basketball next year. LOL!

      • Mark

        December 30, 2010 at 3:15 am

        Yikes, I meant for 2011.

        Oh, and you’re right about the C’s “injuries.” Especially Paul Pierce, who is carted off in a wheelchair, only to be back in the game healthy as an ox moments later.


  13. Go Blue

    December 29, 2010 at 10:57 pm

    At this point, he could trade Marco and Trevor for a broom, mop and 2 hand towels, and get more production. For every good game they have they have 5 BAD games. CP3 needs a hug after this game (smh..poor guy), I hope DWest ankle is okay (he tried), and Mek, well, he tried but not much he could do against the Lakers big. The rest of the players….you could stayed home tonight. Monty work on your rotations buddy, I beg you.

    • QueenBee

      December 29, 2010 at 11:00 pm

      Amen Go Blue! LOL!!! Trevor and Marco make me wish players got paid based on production. If they did, Trevor and Marco would be some broke son-of-a-bitches. LOL!!

  14. QueenBee

    December 29, 2010 at 10:58 pm

    Guys don’t forget Friday’s game is at 2pm CT.

  15. nikkoewan

    December 29, 2010 at 11:02 pm

    i’ve always been an optimist. so seeing that i saw this team 8 wins above what you saw (48 – 50). two things that i think need to improve to get on track to 48 – 50..

    a huge overhaul offensively, and a little tweak defensively. i’ll talk more about it in a journal. im no coach, so it may sound stupid, but i will use numbers so there are things that might back me up on this..

  16. 42

    December 29, 2010 at 11:26 pm

    It seemed to be this games was essentially a referendum on our bench generally and our bigs (starters and bench), and it yielded the expected results.

    So the news is . . . ?

    Am I missing something?

    It was nice that Marco stuck his head up above water for a bit; I wish Marcus would have. Ariza was a least hole without a great sucking sound coming from it. Okafor started well, then started playing like I expected.

    Here’s to kicking Boston in the wop-wops while they are distracted!

  17. QueenBee

    December 29, 2010 at 11:57 pm

    Shhiiid. Paul Pierce will probably shoot 20 free throws on Friday.

  18. HiMyNameisSteven

    December 30, 2010 at 2:11 am

    Here it is dont be mad but lets make this trade

    CP3, D West, Ariza for Griffin D. Jordan Bledsoe and Aminu

    • 42

      December 30, 2010 at 2:55 am

      Spoken like someone who doesn’t see enough Chris in person.

    • Mark

      December 30, 2010 at 3:18 am

      I don’t know what CP’s market value is, but that’s a pretty random position-for-position trade. Although, Griffin can play whatever position on court if I were coach. Kid has incredible talent with utterly no regard to his own well-being.

    • QueenBee

      December 30, 2010 at 10:45 am

      The Hornets wouldn’t be any closer to winning a championship with those players than the ones we would be giving up. We’d just be in for some mighty fine highlights when Sportscenter comes on that’s all. LOL.

      • HiMyNameisSteven

        December 30, 2010 at 3:32 pm

        potential potential potential

  19. Mjacks79222

    December 30, 2010 at 8:13 am

    I know Marcus is a home product, but get real everyone. He is inconsistent just like the rest of our roster. We need high quality guys that can create their own offense instead of relying on cp3. Every night I’m at the game chris is chewing everyone out for being out of position. We are 30 games in the season and we already have players like ariza airmailing it in. Trade cp3 and dwest? Children please get real. That is the craziest thing I have ever heard. You must not watch our team at all to suggest we ship our only chance of winning games away

    • QueenBee

      December 30, 2010 at 10:47 am

      Some here ARE real. Don’t group us all together. Thank you. 🙂

      I’ve probably said it before but I’m really glad that most fans aren’t GM’s. 🙂

      • QueenBee

        December 30, 2010 at 10:49 am

        Ariza isn’t appearing to be as athletic as I’ve known him to be. I don’t know if the guy has found a favorite restaurant to hang in often and is just unconditioned or what but the player that I thought we were getting isn’t the player I’m seeing.

      • AgentZiko

        December 30, 2010 at 12:49 pm

        He’s more athletic than this Queen. I just don’t think he’s utilizing his athleticism. I’m tired of seeing him settle for corner three’s. I REALLY want to see him start back cutting as Chris attacks the basket. Honestly, those 2 should connect for a lot more alley oops.

      • QueenBee

        December 31, 2010 at 12:24 am

        I agree AgentZiko.

  20. Brandon

    December 30, 2010 at 8:43 am

    I think the only good trade we can do right now is this:

    Gerald Wallace for ariza bellinelli and 2012 first round draft pick and
    dj augustin and Edgar jager for Jarrett Jack.

    Jarrett Jack has to be in a seperate trade because of restrictions. Right now I think igoudala and granger are untouchable. Wallace is a little overrated but has ariza’s defense and better offense than both. We also have a backup point guard of the future. Charlotte is shopping dj and he would be a fan favorite(brother Martin). Also the only untouchableplayer on the bobcats is tyrus Thomas.

    Chis Paul/Thornton/Wallace/dwest/okafor
    dj Augustine/green/ pondexter/Jason/Anderson or mbenga.

    Automatic playoff contender.

    • AgentZiko

      December 30, 2010 at 10:44 am

      That doesn’t make us better. It leaves us at about the same.

      • NOLABanks96

        December 30, 2010 at 11:14 am

        I like the deal Brandon. We wud actually have a legit bench. DJ is a pure shooter and has great scoring ability great backup option. As for Wallace he is better than ariza anyday

      • Hornets24//7

        December 30, 2010 at 12:47 pm

        question: y do we have andersen? hes possibly the worst player ever… idk y hes shooting threes hes terrible… bennilie( however you spell his name) is the worst. its times like this i wish we still had rasaul butler and not have given him up for a 2025 second round pick smh lol

  21. paul

    December 30, 2010 at 8:52 am

    42 had it a little focused.

    All this badmouthing Paul and the guards is silly, boardering in nuts!
    The entire game was controlled up front and by size…not guards.

    Did you people watch the same game?????

    Monty looked like a deer in headlights.
    MBenga had no idea how to play the team that dumped him.

    And we had a large body 747 sitting on the bench in a sport coat.
    Just becuase he doesn’t fit this knucklehead’s idea of a fleetfooted center.
    Now he’s lost almost a half season of real time game seasoning.
    S T U P I D.

    This team is out by the second round of the playoffs, if not the first.

  22. Davey

    December 30, 2010 at 8:53 am

    I’d be interested to at least explore the shakeup move of throwing some starts to Pondexter with Ariza coming off the bench. Now, despite a solid start to his rookie season, Pondexter is very limited at this point. But he’s a low-mistake player who has shown signs of being able to stick open shots in the corner. With the starters in, we don’t particularly need someone to create his own shot. Indeed, the most frustrating thing about Ariza is his tendency to force the issue and take away shots from our more efficient scorers. While not totally ideal, Paul-West-Okafor-Belli(or one of our many options at the 2) can be relatively effective offensively with a 3 who simply spreads the floor, follows shots, and shoots only when wide open. I’m imagining a similar role for QPon that MoPete had for the playoff teams. Ariza is of course a better player than Pondexter right now, but when Paul and West are in, there’s an advantage to having a wing that doesn’t take anything OFF the table on the offensive end. This may be damning with faint praise, but Pondexter offers less turnovers and less missed shots. He also might be a better fit with Paul, who seems most comfortable setting up wings for open outside jumpers…but we need to REDUCE the number of 3-point attempts for Ariza.

    Meanwhile, there are advantages to having Ariza with the second unit. There, Ariza’s iffy drives aren’t so bad, as we’re not taking shots away from our best offensive players and in fact we often NEED someone to create something, anything, offensively. Meanwhile, his ability to force turnovers and run might lead to some easy transition buckets for a bench unit that is pretty ugly in the halfcourt.

    I’m not suggesting a drastic change in minutes (unless Pondexter earns it), but something of a shift that sees Pondexter getting more time with the starters and Ariza getting more time with the second unit. This is by no means a cure-all, but we’re at a point in the season when mild shakeups are worth exploring. All of this assumes that Pondexter can be solid defensively against other teams’ starters–don’t think we have enough of a sample to know yet.

    The last thing I’ll say is that it’s easy to wonder whether Ariza is one of those players who’s simply more effective coming off the bench as an energy guy. It certainly seems like he’s much more effective when he plays less minutes–unless he had a weirdly early peak, it’s jarring how much better his rebounding and scoring efficiency were in the three years prior to signing with Houston, back when he was playing 20-25 minutes a game. Of course, we don’t have the roster to accommodate a reduction in minutes like that, but that should really be the long-term plan if he’s going to stick around.

  23. NolaHog

    December 30, 2010 at 9:20 am

    I’m disturbed by Ariza’s ability in the open court. I assumed with his athleticism that he would be a good running mate with Paul to get some fast break points, but that couldn’t be farther from the truth. Everytime we try to push the ball, if it happens to wind up in Ariza’s hands, it’s a turnover or a bricked layup. I think Pondexter might do better in this setting, because our fast break game is pitiful. With our size limitations down low, we could really use some easier buckets.

    • QueenBee

      December 30, 2010 at 10:52 am

      NolaHog, my sentiments exactly! I just wrote above that the player I thought we were getting in Ariza isn’t the player I’ve been seeing. It’s almost unbelivable to tell you the truth. Just like yesterday, we’re on a fastbreak, Ariza is ahead, CP3 passes the ball to him, Ariza loses it off his leg. WTF??!!! LMAO.

  24. MaxJD_Nola2NYC

    December 30, 2010 at 9:36 am

    Great insight on our team. I won’t repeat the same things, but I will share last nights experience. So I tuned into league pass when we were down by 3 and Kobe took a break it was our bench that was in when we went down double digits. It was then that I realized that Willie Green is our bench, he works well with Jack and Smith. Thornton doesn’t fit in on the bench, he should take the starting role in place of bellinelli, and Green should be in place of Ariza in the starting line up. Ariza and bellinelli are followers. Green, Jack and Thornton are leaders so we need to have our starters as leaders… Not followers. Have you guys ever noticed that at some points in the game everyone is looking around in a dumbfounded manner? Lol its Clipper- esk. We just need some changes in our rotation and line-ups.

    On a funny note: I was on NBA.com last night during the third quarter looking at their 60% off deals and I like the On-Court T-shirt. So when I thought about whose jersey I would spend money on, I thought Paul, but already had a Paul Jersey (2) to be exact. Then I thought of my other options and Based on the scroll down options my leaders on the web site was Peja haha (he is still on our team on Nba.com) and Mbenga (Congo Cash) and Thornton (leader) just thought is was funny


    December 30, 2010 at 9:38 am

    Coach Monty Williams is getting more&more frustrated w/ Trevor Ariza.
    -subbin for him early last nite; Ariza noticeably showing frustration

    I think that Coach Williams is on empty w/ MT5.
    -MT5 all by himself on a 5-on-1 fastbreak pulled up for a 3 and missed badly. Coach Williams called a TO and ripped into MT5 ass. CP3 had to explain to MT5 what he did was wrong!

    DWEST had 4 pts before his late 2nd qtr injury!

    • AgentZiko

      December 30, 2010 at 12:51 pm

      I remember that play BigBreed. It was exactly when I decided to change the channel. It’s that kind of stuff that infuriates me while watching basketball. FROM ANYONE.

  26. Mikey

    December 30, 2010 at 9:59 am

    Forget about last night’s game for a second. The Lakers are a championship calibur team, and the Hornets aren’t. We all knew this team wouldn’t contend this year. We also all knew that the biggest weakness on this team would be on the glass, well that certainly reared its ugly head last night. Were the refs horrible last night, yes, but the refs didn’t cause the Lakers to shoot almost 70% and out-rebound the Hornets by 2 touchdowns and a 2pt conversion in the 1st half. Here is what I want to know going forward, becasuse I think last night’s defensive effort was a abboration:

    1. Where do the Hornets rank in 3pt defense this season?
    2. Where do the Hornets rank in 3pt attempts this season?
    …and finally; 3. Where do the Hornets rank in 3pt % this season?

    My guess is that #s 1 and 3 are really low, and #2 is close to, if not just below, league average. I’m going to assume that, since Peja was traded, this team has gone in the toilet in 3pt percentage. If that’s the case, I believe there are multiple factors are at play, 1. Chris Paul doesn’t shoot enough 3’s; he is the best 3pt shooter on this club currently. 2. Marcus Thornton’s 3pt shot selection could use some improvement. 3. Marco and Ariza both need a hug; they are mired in a terrible slump. These combined factors make it extremely tough to run your offense, because you can’t space the floor like you want to. Opposing teams just don’t respect your ability to knock down shots, so you see West get triple-teamed in the 2nd half of games, and the offense grinds to a screeching halt.

    Defesively, the Hornets like to protect the paint at all costs (even though they didn’t show it at all against the Lakers). That means they are willing to give up 3’s, and they have since the beginning of December. You can see that teams are game-planning and scheming on how to get open shots from behind the arc. Check; your move, Monty.

    • Davey

      December 30, 2010 at 10:43 am

      No need to guess on that: we’re 18th in 3pt. %, 26th in 3pt. attempts, and we’re 7th in opponents 3 pt. %.

      Paul shooting more 3s and Ariza shooting less 3s would be a good thing, assuming we can accomplish that within the flow of the offense.

  27. QueenBee

    December 30, 2010 at 11:00 am

    “Forget about last night’s game for a second. The Lakers are a championship calibur team, and the Hornets aren’t. We all knew this team wouldn’t contend this year.”

    So what the Lakers are a championship team and the Hornets aren’t. It doesn’t mean they can’t lose a game to the Hornets. The Hornets beat em last year and they still went on to win the championship. So we shouldn’t EVER expect to beat these guys just because they are a championship team? Why should we even play them then? Should Monty just rest the starters whenever we play the Lakers because we have no chance of winning anyway? Let the bench guys get all of the burn? I hope the players don’t have the thinking that the fans do. Thinking, Oh well, they are a championship team and we aren’t so we can’t beat them, let’s just lay down for them. 😕 Just because the Hornets aren’t going to ‘contend’ this year doesn’t mean they don’t need to win games like these.

  28. AgentZiko

    December 30, 2010 at 11:01 am

    This is a completely separate opinion from what everyone has talked about. I keep hearing that Marcus Thornton should be the guy starting in place of Marco Belinelli.

    I just don’t see how that makes us better. I really like Marcus’s energy off the bench. He can be our Jason Terry if he can learn to play defense. But I have a differing opinion as to who should start at the 2 for us, and I know it’s a little out there.

    When we made the trade for Jarrett Jack, I was VERY confused as to why we traded for a STARTING PG, and were trying to give him 10-15 minutes a game. It just wasn’t making sense to me. Jack is a STARTING PG in this league. I KNOW he is.

    Last night he played 14 minutes. This is a guy who was playing 30+ in Toronto and averging 10+ points a game. I honestly think HE should be the one to start. And here’s why:

    1. He’s a veteran.
    2. He’s a ball handler who can take pressure off of CP.
    3. He is more of a scoring PG anyway.
    4. He would make us MUCH faster on the court.
    5. Even though he’s 6’3 like Marcus and Willie, he’s the better defender of the 3 and can full court press guards with Paul.
    6. He plays well NEXT to Paul (4th quarter vs. Atlanta)
    7. Our starters are already small. Why not speed up the tempo and attack more?
    8. When 1 subs out, the other plays primary PG.
    9. It’ll allow CP to look to score more.
    10. It’s a change. And probably the smartest one we can make.

    A lot of you are screaming start Thornton. I just don’t see him as a starter. He fires away every chance he gets. When we were winning, it was because we played TEAM BALL. We need to keep the TEAM BALL mentality. The more I think about it, the more I think that if we are going to make an internal change, starting Jack would be the most ideal one we could make.

    No. He can’t guard guys like Kobe Bryant. But NO ONE can. Instead, I’d think about it from the offensive end, and forcing Kobe to guard either Jack or Paul, 2 guys who will attack the heck out of you, and FORCE YOU to play defense.

    Chris Paul has been our most consistent 3 point shooter. Well, why not plug someone who can GET HIM THE BALL in position to shoot?

    • BeesGivingEffort

      December 30, 2010 at 11:20 am

      We were winning when our team actually had some semblance of confidence. I think our team’s problems are more mental than anything. That is the main reason I want to see Marcus start. I honestly believe of anyone on the team he is the one guy that can bring swagger back to the starting lineup. I think Jarrett would actually be my second choice at starting SG, but I think that move could come off a little desperate and I don’t know if that’d help our psyche much.

      • AgentZiko

        December 30, 2010 at 11:57 am

        Marcus Thornton won’t make us better. You’re just plugging in another struggling player. You did watch the game last night, right? The game before? The game before that?

      • BeesGivingEffort

        December 30, 2010 at 7:26 pm

        Yeah, you’re right. There is 0% chance that Marcus Thornton getting consistent time with CP3 and David West on the court will make us better. Wow. You and 42 deserve each other. Downright amazing to just write the kid off. You act like Jarrett Jack hasn’t been struggling. Jarrett is shooting 34% as a Hornet this year and 24% from three. Don’t even try to give me the playing time excuse. Guess who’s had to deal with inconsistent playing time. Yeah…

      • AgentZiko

        December 30, 2010 at 7:38 pm

        Aye, Bees. He’s just EMPTY POINTS. If he’s SOOO good, then how come we only won 37 games last season? As exciting as he was, WHY DID THAT NOT ACCOUNT FOR MORE WINS. Him and Darren Collison put up great numbers, but we weren’t able to break .500. I knew we wouldn’t make playoffs when CP went down. But how did we not even break .500 if you think Marcus is THAT good?

        You just compared him to JR Smith yourself. What is JR Smith? A lifelong VERY GOOD back up shooting guard.

        Last night Marcus played 17 minutes and managed to jack up ELEVEN shots, only made 2 of them for 5 total points, and OTHER THAN 1 TURNOVER AND 1 FOUL didn’t contribute AT ALL TO ANY OTHER STAT CATEGORY TO HELP HIS TEAM.

        Get your head out of Marcus’s a** and open your eyes to the real world. I’ve said consistently, I think Marco and Marcus are both SOLID guys to have off the bench, but that we need a BETTER, more VETERAN of a starter at the shooting guard position.

      • AgentZiko

        December 30, 2010 at 7:40 pm

        P.S. I NEVER wrote the kid off. I have said consistently, he is our BEST trading chip behind CP and DWest (thats a serious compliment). And I WANT him to play, I just think he REALLY needs to work on his defense because his footwork is TERRIBLE.

      • 42

        December 30, 2010 at 7:55 pm

        Bees: Disagree with me all you want (which is fine) but don’t misunderstand me (which is not fine).

        I am a Marcus fan, I’ve wanted him to play since the opening night tip, I cheer at home and at the Arena for him, and I think he’s going to help the team in one way or another.

        I’m not sure how you missed this. I point his good and bad, just like I do with the bee closest to my bonnet, D West. This doesn’t detract from my fandom for either.

        C’mon, man, keep the talk about the guys getting checks from the teams, not about us.

    • BeesGivingEffort

      December 30, 2010 at 11:26 am

      @Ziko – I’d like to add that I agree with you about the team play on offense. I just think that the mental problems go hand in hand with the problems that you are suggesting. The way I see it. We have 2.75 guys in our starting lineup that look completely lost on offense right now. Chris and David’s 2 man game seems to have been affected by trying to force the others into getting involved.

      • AgentZiko

        December 30, 2010 at 11:58 am

        Again, another reason I think starting and playing a veteran like Jack would help the team out more so than other current options will.

    • 42

      December 30, 2010 at 11:34 am

      Ziko: You think, and that makes me think. Regardless of what people say about this, thanks for the thinking.

      I’ve got no issue with Jack starting. I’ve got no issue with Marco starting. I’ve got no issue with Marcus starting. It’s about matchups. I don’t care about the first 6 minutes . . . just get the next 42 right . . .

      • AgentZiko

        December 30, 2010 at 11:55 am

        I agree 42.

        It works on a 48 minute basis. Which is why I was thinking about it from a distributive standpoint. People have complained about Marcus not getting enough time. I feel like the same can be said for Jack.

        Think about it… Jack is a starter for 20 out of 30 NBA teams. The same cannot be said for Thornton or Marco.

        And Jack is playing such miniscule minutes… FOURTEEN minutes last night in a blowout loss.

        I think from the teams standpoint, he is our best option to start at the 2. He will bring us the veteran leadership we need, especially if he starts playing 30 minutes a night. After him, you can place Green, Thornton, and Marco right behind CP, Jack, and Ariza.

        In regards to minutes, it would actually balance things out for Monty more too.

      • BeesGivingEffort

        December 30, 2010 at 9:41 pm

        “Jack is a starter for 20 out of 30 teams in the league”

        Congratz. You finally proved that you really don’t know what you’re talking about. At all.

        BTW, don’t act like you didn’t bring any of the hostility on yourself when you went around telling every single person that disagreed with you that they don’t understand basketball and you do.

      • AgentZiko

        December 31, 2010 at 12:09 am

        Really Bees? I guess Chris Paul doesn’t know what he’s talking about either, right? I took the that line from him in his last interview he was asked about Jack.

  29. L_Reazy

    December 30, 2010 at 11:46 am






    • 42

      December 30, 2010 at 11:48 am

      Let’s see your trade proposals. I’m ready to get better.

      • AgentZiko

        December 30, 2010 at 11:56 am

        Yea. I can’t wait to hear this.

      • bobby chi

        January 2, 2011 at 9:15 am

        Would Ron Artest do better than Ariza on our team..?

  30. L_Reazy

    December 30, 2010 at 11:51 am

    No matter how many times you stir $h!T … it’ll never taste as good as chocolate!!!!

    It might look like chocolate eventually … but it ain’t and never will be chocolate.

    …..just a lil’ something for you Hornets fans / chocolate lovers!!!


    • AgentZiko

      December 30, 2010 at 11:56 am

      Um. Not sure how to respond to this. What kind of chocolate are you talking about?

    • 42

      December 30, 2010 at 12:02 pm

      Good job. I’m glad you learned that today.

      Let’s all applaud Reazy, everyone. For some, such feats take a lifetime, and we should not judge harshly those for whom that is true.

      Let’s us set an example here and praise our special guy, Reazy!

      • L_Reazy

        December 30, 2010 at 12:27 pm

        It was a metaphor for our Hornets! lol! You know, the same old …. aw never mind.


  31. bapepper

    December 30, 2010 at 12:03 pm

    can we get marcus thorton on nba 2k online please

    • NOLABanks96

      December 30, 2010 at 12:16 pm

      lol agreed

  32. JCS

    December 30, 2010 at 12:18 pm

    A new year is approaching and I think it’s time we make some changes:

    1a. Trade Marco, Marcus, and Ariza. Dump Gray.

    1b. Get Jamario Moon, and Anthony Parker from Cleveland, as well as Maurice Evans, and Josh Powell from Atlanta.

    2. Put more focus on shooting inside the paint as well defensive rebounding.

    3. Play to win every quarter, even it means setting up a play with 3 seconds on the clock and we’re up by 6. Just do it.

    • 42

      December 30, 2010 at 12:36 pm

      All good ideas.

      I’ll add swap Gray for a 3 that’s not getting any minutes. Should be easy.

      • paul

        December 30, 2010 at 5:08 pm

        PLEASE do this.
        I am a Gray fan ever since his Chi town days.
        I beg to set him free. Banning him to pergatory pisses me off.
        PLEASE trade him!

  33. L_Reazy

    December 30, 2010 at 12:24 pm


    I think the key is to find scorers who Monty can mold into defenders. If Monty is capable of molding Belinelli into a better defender than he can mold anyone.

    If Chris Paul is considered to be our ‘Closer’ like Kobe, LeBron, D-Wade, Melo, and Kevin Durant-chula, then that’s fine. However, is he a closer? Is that his role in the 4th quarter even as an outstanding playmaker? I say no!

    The Hornets have been trying for years to turn David West into that ‘Closer’ in the 4th Quarter, but he is not a closer … just a very good scorer on most nights from Quarters 1-3. Similar to Michael Beasley and the T-Wolves. Their in every game, but can never close out the opposition in the 4th Quarter. They just need a ‘Closer’, and I’ve seen this for years as a resident of Minnesota.

    The Hornets need a ‘Closer’ to take the pressure off CP3. Obviously, the “Real Closers” that I mentioned are unavailable. So, Demps should try and find a player who could be a ‘Closer’.

    For example, when Manu Ginobli came into the league we all thought he was just a fantastic player, but now we’re realizing that he is a fantastic player and a 4th Quarter Closer. He was definitely under the radar in that regard. Just like that Western Conference T-Wolves team against the Lakers years ago, Sam Cassell was the team’s ‘surprise closer’, and when he was unavailable for that series the T-Wolves had no Closer, and had to rely on Troy Hudson. It wasn’t in Kevin Garnett’s nature to be a Closer , and Latrell Sprewell was too streaky at times. Sam Cassell was money in the 4th Quarter that year for the ‘Puppies’. Mr. Big Shot Chauncey Billups did it for the Pistons.

    So, (1) Scorer that has untapped defender qualities, (2) a 4th Quarter ‘Closer’, and what did I miss … oh yea … “Real Size”! 6-11 and UP! A couple of good, fundamentally sound Big Guys!

    Lastly, 2-lock down defenders on the perimeter.

    (1) Scorer that has untapped defender qualities
    (2) a 4th Quarter ‘Closer’
    (3) Real Size in the Paint / fundamentally sound Big Guys
    (4) 2-lock down defenders on the perimeter

    I’ll give the trade proposal some thought, and return with ideas.


  34. JCS

    December 30, 2010 at 12:28 pm

    This team was at it’s peak when Player-Coach Champion Byron Scott led the way. If the Hornets draw from that success (e.g. #2), plus capitalize on their talent (trades or no trades), then they will have much more success down the road.

    • 42

      December 30, 2010 at 9:39 pm

      True about Byron and the peak, but it was also horrible when he was at the helm when Davis went away, when everyone was hurt, and then declined under him.

      I think Byron is a good coach and was a necessary component for getting to 56 wins. I do not think he was the only guy who could do this for us, and I do think there was only so much he could do when Tyson was at 75%.

      Bryon also let the 58-point beat-down happen. Player intensity can account for losing a few points, or even 20, but the other 38 came from the team just folding for a number of reasons.

      I don’t hold what’s happening in Cleveland against him. As I said, we were horrible under Bryon to start. Cleveland lost 1 key player and are on pace to win about 1/3 of what they won last year.

      I like the guy, respect the guy, and I think Byron will be a part of Cleveland becoming a franchise that is in the playoffs regularly again.

  35. Davey

    December 30, 2010 at 1:27 pm

    Rebounding issues on this club are about personnel, not focus (just as the team’s peak success had a lot more to do with healthy Tyson Chandler than Byron Scott).

    In any case, their defensive rebounding rate is actually among the best in the league.

    The team has more than one problem, but the biggest one is that they’re not very efficient at turning possessions into points.

    • JCS

      December 30, 2010 at 1:48 pm

      So the team peaked b/c of it’s players and not b/c of Scott? Fast forward to to today the team is not excelling b/c of Monty as opposed to the players? Just want to make sure I understand your point. Perhaps I don’t.

      Either way, how is their defensive rebounding against playoff teams, namely San Antone and LA? Furthermore, which team has a height advantage and what is their efficiency per height? That is, if Team A has five players on the court with a mean height of 6-7 and Team B has five players on the court with a mean height of 6-4 what are their efficiency ratings and who won the game?

      • 42

        December 30, 2010 at 9:48 pm

        Mean height doesn’t affect rebounding rate strongly. Height is a factor, but where the height is positioned is a bigger factor. Our 7 footers on the bench, or Smith sitting 17 feet from the basket doesn’t help us. Shorter guards drag the mean height down, but they are just as capable of getting the long rebounds of the rim since they are way more thinly spread that the concentration of mean under the basket.

        It’s coaches and players, of course. Monty can’t make Trevor a better shooter. Monty can, however, involve him properly in the offense, which is getting him enough long balls to make him credible enough to spread the defense a little, and see about getting him the ball on a cut to the basket.

  36. L_Reazy

    December 30, 2010 at 1:35 pm

    ’42’ … give it a chance!


    Jason Smith for Jason Thompson
    Marco Belinelli for Anthony Randolph
    Emeka Okafor & Marcus Thornton for J.R. Smith & Chris Andersen
    David West & Trevor Ariza for Andre Iguadola & Thaddeus Young
    Willie Green for Courtney Lee & Jordan Hill
    Keep Marcus Banks’ expiring deal and Trade Exception for the offseason
    ***Every Trade Proposed Does Work Money-Wise***

    F- Jason Thompson (David West clone, but more physical & 4th option)
    F- Andre Igudola (Upgrade over Trevor & 3rd option)
    C- Javale McGee (Tyson Chandler Clone, Crescent City Connection 2.0)
    G- J.R. Smith (Go-To-Guy, should’ve never left, can be a 4th Quarter Closer)
    G- Chris Paul (Mr. Everything)

    F- Anthony Randolph (Upgrade over Jason Smith)
    F- Thaddeus Young (Exceptional Back-up, can play 3 or 4)
    C- Chris Andersen (Upgrade over current Andersen, should’ve never left)
    G- Courtney Lee (Similar game to J. R. Smith, 2nd unit does not lose a ‘beat’!)
    G- Jarret Jack (CP3’s friend … Monty’s “son” … he is solid at times though)

    F- Jordan Hill (Insurance for Anthony Randolph and Jason Thompson)

    ***once again, the Hornets still have Marcus Banks’ expiring contract and Trade Exception.

    Your Thoughts ….


    • L_Reazy

      December 30, 2010 at 1:39 pm


      Quincy Pondexter for JaVale McGee …
      …add this to the list above!


    • JCS

      December 30, 2010 at 1:56 pm

      I realize this comment wasn’t directed at me, but I must say that that team would be epic…Just curious, did you do any research on salary, or know that J.R. and Birdman use to be Hornets? Trading can be very tricky and repeating history even moreso.

      • L_Reazy

        December 30, 2010 at 2:38 pm

        Yes … Salaries all match or fit CBA requirements.

        J.R. Smith has always impressed me, and I feel he has the tools to be a good team defender.

        Chris Andersen is a Beast and very marketable, and with stiff competition from the Saints, the Hornets need more excitement to go along with being good.

        When they were 11-1 nobody showed up at the arena.

        Just look at the athletes on the team I proposed:
        Andre Iguadola
        JaVale McGee
        J.R. Smith
        Anthony Randolph
        Thaddeus Young
        Chris Andersen
        Courtney Lee

        MY GOD … come on … I mean who wouldn’t want to watch this team play? This team would be fun to watch and able to compete with any team in the league, especially with Chris Paul as the leader.

        GMs should be able to pitch these kinds of trades and ‘get-er-done’!


    • 42

      December 30, 2010 at 2:15 pm

      I’m going to read this carefully because you’re effort has earned effort on my part.

      I’m going to also give a quick impression, since you deserve a quick response for the same reason.

      I smell what you are cooking, I like it, and I’ll spot you the money stuff without checking, but I see issues with getting Thompson. Why would they take Smith? I’m asking, not picking.

      • L_Reazy

        December 30, 2010 at 2:30 pm


        I’ve watched a few Kings games and noticed their BIG rotation is Dalembert, Cousins, and Landry. They don’t play Jason Thompson consistently anymore with the addition of Cousins.

        Jason Smith could play those ‘SPOT’ minutes for the Kings with his expiring contract, and they wouldn’t lose a PF who could shoot and rebound some.

        Jason Thompson has 1-year left … while playing those ‘SPOT’ minutes.

        It almost seems that the Kings have made their minds up and said bye to Dalembert’s expiring contract at the end of the year, and they wouldn’t mind saying bye to Jason Thompson too in order to get a better fit for the Kings.

        If the Kings had Jason Smith’s expiring deal to go with Dalembert’s, maybe they’d feel they could get a better BIG MAN this offseason.

        That was sort of my ‘realistic’ thinking behind that trade. Plus, it’s not like Jason Smith wouldn’t fit in Paul Wesphal’s system off the bench.


      • 42

        December 30, 2010 at 10:13 pm


        Can I call you Reazy?


        I like what you are doing here, but I have to agree with Ziko that there is a problem of `will’ on the part of the trading partners.

        I’ve been wanting a `hockey enforcer’, to use hewhorocks’ term for what I called it, and damnit, I can’t figure out how to get one.

        Dude, we should look at every team and pick the guy that has the `feel’ you are looking for and figure out how to get them Probably none of them will happen, but I think it’d be a good exercise.

        Ziko’s point about putting yourself in the other team’s shoes is a good one. We need to find teams that have a need that we can fill. I made a case for Minnesota being such a team (I can re-post it).

        Ziko says the Kings need a guard . . . How about sending Green and Gray for some pieces?

    • BeesGivingEffort

      December 30, 2010 at 6:42 pm

      *L_REAZY this is not so much directed at you as the rest*

      You guys drive me fricking up a wall. You view JR Smith as an upgrade to Marcus Thornton. LOL? JR Smith IS Marcus Thornton with a crappier attitude and less energy and hustle.

      Simply amazing. You guys will find any excuse to back up Monty Williams regarding Thornton. I’m convinced. This isn’t even worth talking about anymore. 42 likes to act uber-intelligent and thoughtful but for some reason when it comes to MT5-Loving or Monty-Hating he throws it out the window.

      • AgentZiko

        December 30, 2010 at 7:30 pm

        I agree with Bees in regards to Thornton-JR Smith.

        But I am indifferent to seeing Marcus start. I don’t see him as the Godsend some are making him out to be. He’s just a scoring guard. Nothing more. Just like JR Smith. Just a really good back up.

      • 42

        December 30, 2010 at 10:00 pm

        I dislike JR Smith nearly as much as I dislike Rudy Fernandez (this is dislike, not an assessment of their ability). I’ll entertain the idea out of respect for the package of deals Reazy put together for us.

        Bees: I can’t make you read the things I post where I say many of the same things about Marcus and Monty that you do. I read your posts and respond to what you actually say, dude. Why do you ignore the things I say that agree with you?

        If you can’t show me the respect I’ve shown you by acknowledging the things I’ve written that are positive about Marcus on a basically weekly basis, then I really don’t know how productive our conversations can be.

    • AgentZiko

      December 30, 2010 at 7:27 pm


      I want to give all of you a little piece of advice when it comes to making trades. If you want to give a trade scenario, PRETEND to be a fan of the other organization. Then, think HOW would the trade help you from that end?


      Sacramento WILL NOT trade Jason Thompson for Jason Smith. It won’t happen dude. First off, they are desperately looking for a PG. They have now offered Jason Thompson for Jeff Teague of Atlanta, and Kyle Lowry of Houston. Neither clubs bit. Also, Westphal wont be coaching there much longer. The guy is absolutely CLUELESS on how to run his team. Istead of establishing a high/low offense to utilize his young and athletic size of Thompson/Landry/Cousins, the guy has tried implementing a fast paced offense, with tons of 1 on 1 isolations with Evans and 1 of the bigs. He also has no understanding of creating defensive rotations. Go back and watch our win against Sac town. We got back into that game because they just dont know what to do when someone goes by their man.

      NY WILL NOT HELP US. Period. Dude, they want CP to leave. They don’t want to give him a reason to stay. And Randolph would give CP a POTENTIAL reason to stay.

      As for JR Smith and Chris Anderson… I would LOVE to have Anderson back, but no way in hell would I want to watch JR Smith give a pouty face every time Monty subbed him out. The guy has the maturity level of a 15 year old. And like others have mentioned, is basically the same player Marcus Thornton is. And how much time does that guy get?

      The last 2 you gave are REAL humdingers for me.

      Green for Courtney Lee and Jordan Hill. WOW. You’re basically telling Houston to give you 2 of their young core that they are trying to build with, for an aging, short, back up shooting guard. LoLoLoLoL. I was shocked at this point. But you only made it get better.

      Philadelphia has announced they are no longer considering offers for Iguodala unless a team is willing to take the expiring contract of Elton Brand as well, or if Carmelo Anthony would consider coming to Philly. But even so, Doug Collins has stated that Iguodala and Brand are the CORE to his team, with Young being his 6th man. And they are a SERIOUS playoff team in the East now, playing VERY good basketball. So why on EARTH would they just give us Iguodala and Young for another PF to clog their rotation (Brand, Young, Speights, Songaila, Brackins).

      As for Javale McGee. I am a BIG fan of McGee’s. Have been since he came into the league. But there is no way in hell Washingtons gonna give him up for Q. To be honest, I think that Washington intends to keep McGee, and is really interested in shipping Blatche and his ego and attitude out of town. But they “say” they are shopping “both” to get teams interested in talking. If a really good offer presents itself, I’m sure they’d consider trading McGee. But you gotta give them a better reason then Pondexter.

      As much as I LOVED your team. Thats just never gonna happen my friend.

      • JCS

        December 31, 2010 at 3:00 pm

        I agree with you 100%. Reazy’s team is EPIC, but I for one did not want comment on the (un)likelihood of it coming to be. Westphal is dumb. Thompson won’t go. Thadeus is a pipe dream. And McGee who I want almost more than anyone for this team, is for serious trades* only.

        Based on my research, I think we can do the following:
        Trade Marco, Marcus, and Ariza. Dump Gray.
        Get Jamario Moon, and Anthony Parker from Cleveland, as well as Maurice Evans, and Josh Powell from Atlanta.

        There’s a gang of players I’d prefer, half of which are in Reazy’s EPIC team, but I think my aforementioned are more realistic. No disrespect @Reazy.

  37. Davey

    December 30, 2010 at 2:36 pm

    JCS, to respond to your questions, my view is that the difference between the Hornets at their best and the Hornets of this season is personnel. In particular, the impact that healthy Tyson Chandler had. I think Monty has done a solid job. I can pick some nits with him, but the team has more or less played to expectation. I was responding to your comment about a change in focus, or a return to the virtues of Byron Scott…again, for me, the limitations of the Hornets have everything to do with the roster.

    Their defensive rebounding percentage is second in the NBA, just behind Orlando and just ahead of Boston. I don’t have time today to look at their rebounding rate against playoff teams only (feel free to do a closer game-by-game analysis!), but just giving a quick glance at boxscores, it’s as you’d expect: they are less effective on the defensive glass against elite offensive rebounding teams such as the Lakers…but other than that, they don’t appear to have any particular struggles rebounding against playoff teams. I don’t follow your point about height*, but it is the case that the Hornets get defensive rebounds in somewhat unconventional ways, with, for example, Paul and Ariza masking some of West’s relatively paltry boardwork for a 4.

    They’re quite bad on the offensive glass. Which is a bummer, because their scoring efficiency is subpar. Again, the team has a number of problems but the biggest issues are on the offensive end of the floor.

    *Obviously height/length correlates to some extent with effective rebounding, but it’s by no means the end-all.

    • JCS

      December 30, 2010 at 3:30 pm

      Thanks for your explanation of personnel. Every time I read that word I think of the suit-and-ties off the court versus the guys who actually play on the court. As for my point about height, when I saw Lamar and Pau grab rebounds with both feet on the ground as Marcus and Quincy frogged around, I wanted to turn my head and spit. Instead, I’ve come on here trying to get the point across that it seems like the most successful teams on average, actually have the tallest teams. And so, if the Hornets were to trade for height plus skill, it would make a huge difference down the road IMPO.

      Lakers have 3 players under 6-6:
      15 Ron Artest F 6-7 260
      9 Matt Barnes F 6-7 226
      5 Steve Blake G 6-3 172 ***
      12 Shannon Brown G 6-4 210 ***
      24 Kobe Bryant – C G 6-6 205
      17 Andrew Bynum C 7-0
      45 Derrick Caracter F 6-9
      3 Devin Ebanks F 6-9 215
      2 Derek Fisher – C G 6-1 210 ***
      16 Pau Gasol C 7-0 250
      7 Lamar Odom F 6-10 230
      50 Theo Ratliff C 6-10 235
      1 Joe Smith F-C 6-10 225
      4 Luke Walton F 6-8 235

      Hornets have 6 players under 6-6:
      1 David Andersen C 6-11 247
      1 Trevor Ariza F 6-8 210
      15 Marcus Banks G 6-2 205***
      8 Marco Belinelli G 6-5 ***
      34 Aaron Gray C 7-0 270
      33 Willie Green G 6-3 201 ***
      28 Didier Ilunga-Mbenga C 7-0 255
      2 Jarrett Jack G 6-3 197 ***
      44 Pops Mensah-Bonsu F 6-9 235
      50 Emeka Okafor C 6-10 255
      3 Chris Paul – C G 6-0 175 ***
      20 Quincy Pondexter F 6-6 225
      14 Jason Smith F-C 7-0 240
      5 Marcus Thornton G 6-4 205 ***
      30 David West – C F 6-9 240

      Spurs have 5 players under 6-6, two of which get playing time. I’ll have to check and see what their roster was when they were winning it all.

  38. QueenBee

    December 30, 2010 at 2:47 pm

    Second ASG ballot returns are in. Keep voting for CP3. He’s about the only Hornet that will make it based on fan voting. Vote, vote, vote! Daily!


  39. L_Reazy

    December 31, 2010 at 5:03 pm

    ‘JCS’ & ‘Ziko’ (from a previous discussion of “Odom Dominates as Lakers hand the Hornets rare Home loss”)

    I feel what you mean about realistic trades … but we question trades and why they happen all the time. The reality is if we really knew about trades months before they eventually happened we would say, many of times, “Why would that team want to do that trade?” Point is: we never know why they do what they do!

    What I do know is each player I included in those trades would fit with there new team.

    David West & Trevor Ariza would fit in Philadelphia
    Marco Belinelli would fit in New York
    Jason Smith would fit in Sacramento
    Emeka Okafor and Marcus Thornton would fit in Denver
    Willie Green would fit in Houston
    Quincy Pondexter would fit in Washington

    I agree, Jordan Hill and Courtney Lee are young, but they are also just ‘Marginal’ players; and they definitely are not untouchable. Houston would deal those two players, and Willie Green is actually more solid.

    McGee makes a lot of mistakes with John Wall and Kirk Hinrich, but would probably become more efficient with Chris Paul the same way Tyson Chandler did. This is partially why JaVale McGee is not untouchable, and being shopped as we … type!

    I see your point about Marco Belinelli for Anthony Randolph, and how New York doesn’t want to give Chris Paul a reason to stay. However, D’toni would absolutely love a player like Belinelli!

    I know you’ll hate me for this, and I’ll probably be on an Island for this next comment, but, I actually prefer J.R. Smith over Marcus Thornton … yea I know … to me he’s just more explosive. Sorry yawl!

    Someone mentioned that Jason Thompson is being shopped for a PG, which is true. Nevertheless, he’s being shopped! So, I made a pitch for him.

    One thing is for certain: The Hornets can no longer make Mediocre or ‘Marginal’ trades and expect to get better or ‘ELITE’.

    ‘JCS’ I like Anthony Parker and Jamario Moon too, but they can’t help us reach our lofty goals. You know that, because you and I have seen the Hornets do trade that way time-after-time, and we often criticized Jeff Bower for doing so. Dell Demps, for all the good things he has done so far cannot afford to make ‘Bower-like’ mistakes! Let’s make some “Blockbuster Deals”!


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