Hornets road woes continue as they lose to Timberwolves

Published: December 27, 2010

If you are a mediocre player or a young baller who has yet to achieve success in the NBA, make sure you pull out the schedule and circle the date when your team plays the Hornets, because you are bound to go off that night. Wesley Johnson, the Timberwolves talented but raw rookie, got the memo and went off for career highs in three-pointers (6) and points (24) as he provided the spark in Minnesota’s 113-98 win over the Hornets on Monday night.

Johnson was so hot that he was even having a hard time believing that his shots were going in- and that was after he made his 3rd three-pointer! Numbers 4, 5, and 6 were just cherries on top for a team that shot light out from deep, going 11-23, which of course is uncharacteristic of the Timberwolves, but that’s just how it goes some nights.

In addition to Johnson, the Timberwolves got big contributions from Michael Beasley (30 points), Kevin Love (double-double), and Darko Milicic (14 points in just 20 minutes). The Timberwolves defense was also uncharacteristically decent, as they forced New Orleans to stay primarily on the perimeter by rotating quickly and using some zone. The Hornets shot 42% from the field and just 3-11 from deep.

David West and Chris Paul showed up, as usual, for the Hornets but nobody else really stood out against the worst defensive team in the league. CP3 picked up where he left off against Atlanta, as he looked for his own shot more often earlier in the game and hounded players on the defensive end. He was completely into this game, and I think the Hornets win this game if the other nine guys had half of his focus and intensity.

Long story short, the loss was in part due to lack of intensity by the Hornets combined with a red hot shooting night that we have to tip our hats to. They had it going tonight and when the Hornets allowed Minnesota to stick around in the first half, their confidence grew. Another bad loss on the road- their 7th straight- and it doesn’t get any easier as the Lakers and Celtics are the next two on the schedule.

Other News and Notes:

– The Timberwolves did a smart thing by putting Milicic o West and Love on Okafor. Okafor doesn’t have the post moves to take advantage of Love down low and Milicic frustrated West for most of the possessions he was covering him, blocking 2 of his shots and changing 2 or 3 others.

– Thornton and Jack were simply off tonight (combined 3 for 15), but they were taking a lot of the same shots that they normally make- it just wasn’t their night. Shots weren’t falling, but on a positive note the two only had 1 turnover in 39 minutes of play.

– Quincy Pondexter knows his limits and he doesn’t try to do things that he does not do well. This is one of my favorite attributes of good NBA players that often goes unnoticed.

– The Jason Smith banner just isn’t working. Not even the magic of Dariusz could bring his game back to life.

– Earlier this season the Hornets were battling the Spurs and Mavericks for best records in the West and the Southwest division lead. At this rate, they will soon be battling the red hot Houston Rockets for 3rd place in the division.

– At least the Saints won, guaranteeing a spot in the playoffs and an outside shot at the division. Go Saints!


  1. TopherPrice

    December 27, 2010 at 11:04 pm

    I am dead serious about needing a Marcus/CP3 combo banner for Wednesday. Gonna need all the help we can get.

  2. Go Blue

    December 27, 2010 at 11:08 pm

    At this point, I rather see Quincy get more minutes than Trevor, he’s going to make my hair fall out. And I wish Monty would bench Marco already, he shot 1 3pt in the game. Isn’t that what he’s out there for, to space the floor???? Next practice I’m hoping for a lay-up drill (for goodness sake). And I think Mek played well tonight, I can’t think of anything he did wrong. He had more offensive rebounds than defensive (nice!), but I guess he could had stayed out of foul trouble.

    Well the only bright side to the next game against the Lakers is that they will be on the 2nd night of a back-to-back (first game against Spurs, hopefully they can wear out the Lakers). Let’s hope that the Boston game does not have the Boston commentators (please god no!), I don’t feel like watching an entire game on mute.

    Go Hornets…blah

  3. Brazilian Hornet

    December 27, 2010 at 11:38 pm

    Our second half was depressing. This team is very inconsistent. That the Lakers have mercy on us…

  4. MaxJD_Nola2NYC

    December 27, 2010 at 11:40 pm

    Why doesn’t Coach Monty see the problems we are facing? Ariza and bellenelli need to pay for their lack of professionalism! Play Thorton and green on wed.

  5. mbdtf

    December 27, 2010 at 11:42 pm

    I’m gonna be in the Arena on Wednesday. A Marcus banner is absolutely necessary.

    I’m really pumped about the Saints!

  6. BeesGivingEffort

    December 28, 2010 at 12:02 am

    This is the last time I will say it.

    Marcus Thornton needs to start.

    Monty Williams is being a prideful little sack of s***. You can make all the excuses you want for the man. Thornton is a better player than last year, etc. But the fact of the matter is, Marcus Thornton is a better player and they should have brought him along instead of playing these retarded games all season. Marco should have NEVER started. Monty should have developed Thornton from the get-go without having to act like a bigtime a**hole to Thornton and no one else. Don’t even try to tell me that Thornton wouldn’t have allowed Monty to teach him proper defense. He has allowed it while Monty has ostracized him like no one else on the team and used him as an example.

    Now, Monty’s stuck in a tough spot.

    Admit he made a major mistake by appointing Marco as his starting SG and look like a clown, or continue to play dumb and act like this whole thing is Marcus Thornton’s fault. I, for one, feel like I see straight through his BS.

    I am going to cut down on posting as my attitude in general is one of overall frustration with our jack*** head coach over the last month and I don’t like the fact that I’m constantly moaning on 247 and defending Marcus against people who for some reason, act like he is D-League scrubery that doesn’t even belong in the NBA. Marcus is the only player on our team, outside of Chris, that has the potential to be an All-Star. Hell, with the right minutes this year he would probably be on the threshold (top 10-15 players on the outside looking in) as we speak.

    I will be booing Monty Williams in pre-game introductions and heckling him during the game until Marcus Thornton is starting from section 321. I’ve had enough. I sit in row 2 if anyone wants to come by and try to manage a collective anti-Monty cheer.

    Time to man up Monty and do the right thing. The funny thing is, few would criticize him for making the mistake. Most just want to see the kid playing. It’s as if he’s determined that Belinelli will drink the ooze, become Super Belinelli, and prove everyone wrong.


    • 42

      December 28, 2010 at 12:09 am

      Monty and Dell have already admitted mistakes. They are not in atough spot.

      I’m a Marcus fan, but Marco out played him tonight. Marcus has way more upsude and needs those minutes to develop. Marco has probably hit his ceiling, with a good game coming out every few games or so.

      • BeesGivingEffort

        December 28, 2010 at 12:13 am

        Well, I didn’t see the game, but it doesn’t appear that Marco outplayed him from the boxscore. Their wings went off on us tonight and the +/- shows it.

      • 42

        December 28, 2010 at 12:28 am

        Cherry-picking stats doesn’t prove anything. All the starters had those +/- numbers, and the bench had a respectable +/- considering the 15 point loss.

        Look at the efficiency on offense. Trevor too.

      • okijeff

        December 28, 2010 at 3:17 am

        It only helps to cherry pick stats when it is good for your argument.

        He has access to box scores:


      • BeesGivingEffort

        December 28, 2010 at 10:12 am

        I’m cherry picking? I must be missing something. I didn’t know 5-12 was considered a good offensive game. If anything, Marco BARELY outplayed Marcus tonight, and this is the type of game people are defending him on?

        Also, when Beasley and Johnson have +/- of +16 and +13 respectively and Ariza and Belinelli have +/- of -15 and -18 respectively, while our bench wings all have +/- no worse than -1, it’s pretty obvious which of our wings were on the floor the majority of the minutes against their starting wings.

        Again, people love to cherry pick in Marco’s favor but if Marcus has a bad game at 3-11 and Marco has a “good” game at 5-12, then you need to realize yourself how your personal expectations view both players.

      • 42

        December 28, 2010 at 12:38 pm

        The starters got lit up, wings included. The bench did not get lit up, wings included.

        Marcus played poorly in this game. So did Marco. Marco played less poorly than Marcus in this game.

        I’m not defending anyone. I’m assessing this game. In case you haven’t noticed, I agree with you on a number of things. I just don’t think you are making your points in one of the best possible ways.

        Marcus’ case against Marco was made most clearly in the Kings game. Marco has played horribly offensively since then, but has maybe started to turn a corner. Marcus hasn’t reached nearly that height again, but has been playing better than a down Marco. This game doesn’t help or hurt the case for either.

        If Marco stays doen much longer, or Marcus shows more Kings plays, I’ll be calling as loudly as you.

        Personally, I hope they both play well.

      • AgentZiko

        December 29, 2010 at 1:33 pm

        42. THANK YOU!



        Everyones so angry towards someone. Rather than hating on our guys, why not root for everyone to do well.

        This has gotten ridiculous. Are we Hornet fans? Or Marcus Thornton fans?

      • 42

        December 29, 2010 at 2:41 pm

        This is a Hornets blog?

      • AgentZiko

        December 29, 2010 at 2:48 pm


    • Hornet Seantonio

      December 28, 2010 at 5:29 pm

      “Marcus is the only player on our team, outside of Chris, that has the potential to be an All-Star.”

      what about david west lol

      • BeesGivingEffort

        December 28, 2010 at 5:53 pm

        David West will never be an all-star again in the NBA. That’s not criticizing West. I love the guy, It’s just truth.

      • AgentZiko

        December 29, 2010 at 2:10 pm

        I dont think Marcus will ever be an All Star because of the amount of guards in the West. Too many guys for him to beat out.

  7. MaxALM

    December 28, 2010 at 12:50 am

    This team can’t buy a win on the road. If you can’t beat the Pistons, Pacers, Clippers, or T’Wolves on the road, then who?
    Jan. 1 @ Washington.
    If they don’t win that game, this team is .500 at the end of the year. Having a dominant home record won’t get you anywhere if you can’t beat teams like these on the road.
    Marcus needs to start. Now. Marco hasn’t deserved his minutes for a while now.

    • okijeff

      December 28, 2010 at 12:07 pm

      I want to see MT5 start too. Marco to the bench!

  8. Urinesane

    December 28, 2010 at 1:52 am

    The Wolves are tied for 5th in 3point %, so it’s not “of course uncharacteristic” that they shot 12% above their average. The Wolves can score, it’s their defense that was the difference tonight.

  9. Forever504

    December 28, 2010 at 2:26 am

    never change the Banner after we win a game

  10. F******

    December 28, 2010 at 5:58 am

    Shooting was key in this one. As the wolves began to hit long range shots late in the game, the hornets stopped to shoot with confidence. They even passed on good looks and instead tried to drive. That’s OK, but there wasn’t any space and the refs were letting them play. The wolves were able to tighten it up around the basket and the hornets couldn’t adjust.
    They are losing their confidence about their shooting on the road. You can’t win like that!

    • 42

      December 28, 2010 at 8:34 am

      Offensive confidence is certainly an issue.

  11. NOEngineer

    December 28, 2010 at 6:29 am

    Marcus is no more consistent than Belly, Willie, or Trevor. He has good games and horrible games. Most of his bad games come on the road (I didn’t say all, Marcus-lovers) where we need the scoring. I like the energy he brings, but he isn’t some cure-all when he shoots 3 for 11 against Minnesota.

    The hallmarks of our one great team were tough road mentality and the ability to consistently beat the lesser teams. This year’s team has neither attribute over the last 20 games. On the plus side, we have been treated to lots of home wins….

    As far as booing Monty: that’s childish, ignorant, and counter-productive. For one thing Marcus has been getting beaucoup minutes lately. For another, the biggest weakness Marcus has is not sticking with his man allowing open 3-point looks. CP3 has the same problem, but for different reasons. I couldn’t watch the game to see who was allowing all the 3-pointers (I’m also somewhat ignorant thanks to CST), but the 3-pointer seems to be what killed us. Monty has “allowed” sub-par intensity on the road, but intensity is mostly on the players, IMO.

    We have a legitimate shot against the Lakers, and no shot against Boston. Let’s hope we rise up and protect home court, and that we don’t have any injuries in Beantown…..

    • 42

      December 28, 2010 at 8:37 am


    • AgentZiko

      December 28, 2010 at 12:48 pm

      Cheers to the fellow Engineer.

  12. m-W

    December 28, 2010 at 8:46 am

    Marcus Thornton should start. Marco should back him up. Monty gets a B-. Coaches AND players need to figure out road woes. Don’t boo ANY Hornets people. That is all.

    • BeesGivingEffort

      December 28, 2010 at 10:15 am

      You think it’s frustrating now? Wait till Willie Green comes back and Marcus gets pulled after his first turnover or the first time he gets caught on a screen. Back to 8-10 minute games or only seeing him til the game is way out of reach or not at all.


    December 28, 2010 at 8:58 am

    Let’s trade David West to Portland for LaMarcus Aldridge! (if portland bite & CP3 approve<which i doubt)

    He's the same type player on the perimeter, but he's
    -taller @ 6'11 (better defender in the paint)
    -younger @ 25yrs old (DWest is 30)
    -more energetic and better rebounder @ 8.5 per/G, plus 1.2 blks per
    -more consistant in other stats, not just in the scoring department<which is all DWest gives you…POINTS!

    • m-W

      December 28, 2010 at 9:23 am

      No thank you. David West has always been better than Aldridge.

      • BIGBREED

        December 28, 2010 at 1:36 pm

        DWest have been in the league longer and he’s older, and they both(DWest and Aldridge) have basically the same stats “DWest has maxed out on his NBA talents as a player. He’s about to break the bank for a 30yr old offensive minded PF/SF!


        DWest (7th NBA yr) @ 30yrs old career ave
        -16.2 pts
        -7.2 rebs
        -0.8 blks
        -1.7 TO
        {current season ave. 19.3pts – 7.0 rebs}

        LaMarcus Aldridge (4th NBA yr)@ 25yrs old career ave
        -16.3 pts
        -7.2 rebs
        -1.0 blks
        -1.4 TO
        {current season ave. 19.2pts – 8.5rebs}

        ***LaMarcus hasn’t maxed out on his talents being only 25yrs old


      • 42

        December 28, 2010 at 1:54 pm

        That’s a bunch of numbers, but I thunk West has scored more points than that this season.

        Do you mean points per game? Surely not. Everyone knows that players minutes vary from team to team for many reasons, so points per 48 minutes, points per 36 minutes, or points per minute are usually quoted.

        You numbers don’t apprear to be those figures though. Also, we you using these figures, you’d change your tune.

        Do that all again with the right numbers.

        Add in West’s modest but soon-to-be-renegotiated contract compared to Aldridge’s monster deal, and West’s value per dollar us not in the same conversation as Aldridge’s.

      • BIGBREED

        December 28, 2010 at 2:42 pm

        I don’t just makeup #’s to throw them out there for my own personal glory! These #’s are the actual stats of these players, per game! If you want to break’em down into 26, 36, 42 mins…go right ahead. BUT to be frank, DWest is an offensive minded PF that plays like a slow/lazy SF, who’s very inconsistant! (except for his points, bcuz thats all he cares about)

        DAVID WEST is on cruise control!

      • BIGBREED

        December 28, 2010 at 2:44 pm

        Go to “NBA.Com” for the stats
        -read’em and weep!

      • BIGBREED

        December 28, 2010 at 3:00 pm

        A PF thats an ALL-STAR should ave a double/double!

        20 &10 Baby, 20 &10!

      • 42

        December 28, 2010 at 3:08 pm

        I was being a little mild, if sarcastic, in my critique.

        Your analysis is poor is leading you to a faulty conclusion. Aldridge has to play much more than West (like 5-10% more) to get the per game numbers. That means he’s less effective on his team than West is on his.

        You can go to the analysis if you want to learn how to assess players. I already did that.

        I don’t have a problem with poor assessments, after all, they make me look good, but I thought I’d try to help you out.

        I hope this helps, Bigbreed.

      • Hornet Seantonio

        December 28, 2010 at 5:35 pm

        aldridge is a pussy. hes little and d diddles is a way better shooter. Stat all you want, a good friend of mines a blazers fan so ive watched my fair share of lamarcus and hes no david west. D west 10 times over scrawny ace aldridge, people think dwest gets pushed around down low and hes much stronger than aldridge

      • BIGBREED

        December 29, 2010 at 8:00 am

        You, help me out? Dude, you are funny!
        You’re breaking down pts/mins per game, which has nothing to do w/ production. NUMBERS don’t lie! The entire NBA knows DWest lack of production “defensively” as a big man in the paint. The Hornets are weak in the middle and the league are aware of their weakness. DWest “the All-star” (only Hornets media/fans uses that title) is lazy and has maxed out on his potential. None of the other “NBA players” vote/respects him as an All-star, which he became one that year by default! Players only respect his offensive game as a PF. They don’t respect his defensive game nor his presence in the paint bcuz the opposing teams game plan is to take it straight at DWest, bcuz he doesn’t contest shots! I’m not questioning his strenght, bcuz he’s strong as hell. But its his “effort on defense” thats well documented in other coaches scouting reports! ….AND I KNOW THIS FOR A FACT!

        *** The World’s Strongest Man isn’t the strongest man in the world when he’s asleep!


      • 42

        December 29, 2010 at 8:19 am

        Numbers don’t lie. Some people miss the little bits of truth in them.

        You have fun with Aldridge.

      • BIGBREED

        December 29, 2010 at 8:24 am

        The NEW ORLEANS HORNETS are inconsistant bcuz their “leader” is inconsistant!

        the media says that” dwest showed up” (24pts, 4rebs) < and he's an All-star?

        ** Management have to constantly check on him due to his "lacksadaisical mood". The dude is on cruise control and he can care less about who notices!

      • BIGBREED

        December 29, 2010 at 8:26 am

        …and you continue to have fun being inconsistant w/ DWEST!

      • BIGBREED

        December 29, 2010 at 9:02 am


        LaMarcus Aldridge(25yrs old) -vs- Denver
        18pts, 13rebs, 7blk, 4ast, 3stl, 1TO {36.5 mins}

      • BIGBREED

        December 29, 2010 at 9:07 am

        ….and he’s a pussy!

        ^ per Hornet Seantonio

      • 42

        December 29, 2010 at 1:08 pm

        You are missing the truth.

        You did prove that Aldridge has had at least 1 game better than West’s worst game. Wonderful. You have taken your first step into a larger world.

        Aldridge is fine and overpaid. West is better and maybe slightly underpaid.

        I can’t teach you to recognize how a big thing is actually bigger than a small thing, so this is about all I can say to you. Let me know when thing like object permanence take hold. We can talk again then.

        I anticipate you repeating the above to me and replacing the word Aldridge with West. Please do that for me.

    • AgentZiko

      December 29, 2010 at 1:38 pm

      You really think Lamarcus Aldridge is an All Star? You’re crazy.

      Pau Gasol
      Dirk Nowitski
      Tim Duncan
      Paul Milsap
      Al Jefferson
      Zach Randolph
      Kevin Love
      David West
      Blake Griffin

      Those are all guys that will get voted ahead of Aldridge at PF. Whatever dream world you’re living in is crazy. D West fits on this team. I wouldn’t trade him at all. Lamarcus doesn’t make us better. He sets us back waiting for him to develop.

      • BIGBREED

        December 29, 2010 at 4:07 pm

        The fact that you have Blake Griffin behind DWest tells me your basketball IQ!
        PLUS I’ve never said that LaMarcus was an All-Star, nor do I call DWest an All-Star.
        STOP MISS QUOTING ME, go back and read what I’ve posted so you can understand my posts.

        your basketball IQ is very low, for you to say that DWest is under paid and to have him in such high regards as a PF in today’s NBA!

        -I ask you-
        1.)When DWest scoring goes down…in what other capacity(stats/production) does he carries/leads the HORNETS?
        2.)Where do you have him ranked as a PF? Is he in your Top 10?
        3.)Does he make your NBA All-Star team?
        4.)You being the GM of a Team, Does DWest make your roster of 15?
        5.)PF controls the Boards and the Paint. Do DWest do either?
        6.)DWest being 30yrs old. Does he makes your Top 15 ranking of 30+ best players?
        7.) Taking away DWest points. What else does he brings to a team being a PF?
        8.)What other starting PF ave a lower Reb/G then DWest?
        9.)Is Dwest an All-Star this year? Next yr? How about the next?
        10.)Is DWest a future “Hall of Famer” in the NBA?
        11.)Why do you settle for mediocracy?


      • AgentZiko

        December 29, 2010 at 4:52 pm

        That was just a list Big Breed. Not in any order.

        I don’t know who you are to just run around telling people how high of a basketball IQ they have, but you shouldn’t do that. You might say something to someone who actually has a much better IQ than yourself and you might embarrass yourself.

        Look at your questions and reassess what you’re asking. Also, ask the same questions of Lamarcus Aldridge.

        If anything, Lamarcus’s stats are VERY low. Brandon Roy has been out all season and Aldridge has been the go to guy. Thats why Portland is under achieving. D West has CP next to him to shoulder the load.

        For this team, David West is a VERY nice compliment to Chris Paul. He has a very high basketball IQ (a term you like to throw around), and is tough as nails. And his mid range jumper money. Lamarcus relies on lobs and put backs to score.

        My honest opinion, I think Okafor is the guy who doesn’t quite fit. We need a more athletic Center like Chandler to play with Chris Paul. If you had said Okafor for Chandler… I wouldn’t have complained.

      • AgentZiko

        December 29, 2010 at 4:52 pm

        Excuse me. I miss Tyson too much. Okafor for Aldridge.

      • AgentZiko

        December 29, 2010 at 4:53 pm

        P.S. I was ASKING you if you think Lamarcus is an All Star. I didn’t say you think he is one.

      • AgentZiko

        December 29, 2010 at 4:55 pm

        One last thing. D West is a top 10 PF in the NBA dude. And here’s a list (in no particular order) of the top 10 guys:


      • Hornet Seantonio

        December 29, 2010 at 5:11 pm

        Breed youd put a rookie blake griffin who has had 30 games give or take to prove what hes made of in the nba over a proven veteran in david west. talk about lack of basketball iq

      • 42

        December 29, 2010 at 5:42 pm

        Bigbreed: I will answer you when you answer me. You have an assignment on the table that involves per minute numbers. Until then, I won’t even try to correct the other errors in your, for lack of a better word, analysis.

      • BIGBREED

        December 30, 2010 at 10:04 am

        Agentziko, I see that you are special so here’s what I’m going too do. I will re-posted what I said.

        -Let’s trade DWest to Portland for LaMarcus Aldridge
        “He’s the same type player on the perimeter, but he’s…”

        ***Is there anything in that post linking me to saying, LaMarcus is an ALLSTAR and DWEST isn’t? NO!***
        -Comprehension is key dude-

        You are a joke…..PERIOD!

      • BIGBREED

        December 30, 2010 at 10:08 am

        statement on LaMarcus cont….

        but he’s….
        -more energetic
        -more consistant in his other stats that doesn’t includes scoring

      • 42

        December 30, 2010 at 11:31 am

        Stare at an overmatched contest if you wish. Base your life on it if you wish.

        Flail about as you will. You are wrong and your are either too scared do the work, or incapable of doing it, to see it. That’s fine by me.

        And, yes, I’m very funny. Thanks for noticing. You make me laugh. Alot.

      • BIGBREED

        December 30, 2010 at 9:01 pm

        The work inwhich you’re talking about, is for computer/fantasy playing geeks! I’ll only give you two(2) reasons why your pts-per-mins has nothing to do with playing/coaching basketball(in real life).

        1.) ALL of the NBA players & coachs admitts that in the PLAYOFFs, the games are slowed down to a half-court game and its more physical than the regular season.
        (your “pts-per-mins” theory doesn’t make sense and it won’t win playoff gms)

        2.) C- Bill Russell & PF- Dennis Rodman
        -wasn’t a pts-per-min players! Their positions required him to Rebound and control the paint w/ their Defense!

        *** Check your position responsibilities and check your so-call basketball theory ***

        -Basic Basketball 101 says that the game is played inside-out, Not by points per mins!


      • 42

        December 30, 2010 at 9:29 pm

        Firstly, who is a better player: The guy who puts up 10 points, 5 assists, and 3 rebounds in 30 minutes, or the guy who puts up the same stats but in only 20 minutes? Sure, there will situational differences, but let’s say they have the same line over the course of the whole season, averaging 10 points per game, 5 assists per game, 3 rebounds per game, but with the one player averaging 30 minutes per game, the other player averaging 20 minutes per game. Now, who is better?

        The above isn’t for geeks; it’s for people who are actually trying to understand what they are watching when they watch basketball.

        To address your two cute little attempts at making points:

        1.) ALL of the NBA players & coachs admitts that in the PLAYOFFs, the games are slowed down to a half-court game and its more physical than the regular season.
        (your “pts-per-mins” theory doesn’t make sense and it won’t win playoff gms)

        I’m not sure who is admitting what to whom, but what you are talking about is pace, which may affect certain styles of play, but will affect per-minute-production pretty uniformly.

        2.) C- Bill Russell & PF- Dennis Rodman
        -wasn’t a pts-per-min players! Their positions required him to Rebound and control the paint w/ their Defense!

        Everyone plays per minute because we exist in this geeky space-time continuum. You will be familiar with it from the Back to the Future series, but some of us dabble in M-Theory with 7 more dimensions . . .

        At any rate, thanks for making my points. Great players can affect a game even in short bursts of playing. They don’t need a whole game to work to get their numbers.

        You are welcome.

      • BIGBREED

        December 31, 2010 at 4:22 pm

        So I’ve proven your points by listing Bill Russell & Dennis Rodman? Both were low scoring but very defensive minded players, that had nothing to do w/ the “Offensive Pts Per Mins” game which you talked about! CHECKMATE…I knew your foolish ass would bite!

        DUDE, I’ve been in sports my whole life! You are a professional blogger…
        {SERIOUSLY- If you want to learn a few things about Basketball, send me your email address}

        -U R A EZ 1-

      • 42

        December 31, 2010 at 4:35 pm

        You fail to understand the English I’m using is the problem.

        When you compare players, it provides a clearer comparison when you compare points per minutes instead of points per game, and similarly for other categories. I never said anyone had to score in high volume to be great. There was no biting or nibbling.

        I am far from a professional blogger, but thanks for the compliment. I’m sure you are great an being in sports. We’ll work on your communication.

      • BIGBREED

        January 1, 2011 at 7:57 pm

        The professional blogger title wasn’t a compliment! {another one of your poor comprehension/twisting others words; which you commonly do!}

        I’m done w/ your elementary behavior/thinking!
        {this feels like I’m talking to a woman in a marriage twisting words}


      • 42

        January 1, 2011 at 8:12 pm

        I know exactly what you are saying and doing.

        I’m being kind to you in general, as I don’t think I’m heightening the comedic effect of what you write. I thought that would be appreciated.

  14. Hornets fan from KC

    December 28, 2010 at 8:59 am

    Beesgivingeffort is right on the mark. I see a little farther down the thread where it is pointed out how Marcus guy gets wide open looks at the three ball. Is anyone watching the games?? More importantly is Monty?? Marco makes Peja look like Gary Payton out there. I have watched evry hornets game from start to finish this year and Marco is hands down the worse defender I have seen. He guards no one and every game the opposing team picks on him every time down the court. Wesly Johnson just lit his a** up. He does have the Peja swipe down as he trys to get out on his man and his guy goes right by him. Brutal!! I am trying to think of one thing that Marco does better then Thornton and have come up blank. Marco seems to even be a below average shooter.

    I too am tired of Monty sitting Marcus because of his supposed lack of defense. When green returns the Marco experiment needs to end. Thornton starts Green backs him up Marco DNP. Monty can say Marco needs to work on his defense and he would even be right. I believe we would have a better record right now with Jeff Bower at the controls.

  15. MaskedTalent

    December 28, 2010 at 10:36 am

    you can watch games on firstrow.net if you cant see it on tv. You may have to download one thing called vshare but its harmless. So when the games are being played and you have no way to see it you should at least consider it….

    Do Not Boo Monty! How immature can you get? Booing our team is not going to help. Mt5 was only 3-11….yeah…those are starters numbers… BUT i will say that we should put the Marcus Thorton banner needs to be put back

    • BeesGivingEffort

      December 28, 2010 at 11:30 am

      You do realize we essentially have one season to convince Chris Paul to stay, right?

      This is the ONE chance we get. A first round one-and-done will not cut it.

      Drastic times call for drastic measures. We are stuck in a tough spot and the one person with enough talent to fix our starting lineup’s issues is sitting on the bench for over half the game and probably more with the return of Willie Green.

      • AgentZiko

        December 28, 2010 at 12:05 pm

        Question for you here Bees.

        I agree with you, we have 1 season to convince CP to stay.

        So why is it that when I state a sheer FACT that using Marcus Thornton as trade bait you have gotten so upset with me about it?

        I really like Marcus. He’s GOING to be a great player one day. But he’s still young and has a lot to learn.

        Other than CP and DWest, he is our best trading chip. Even bigger than Okafor. He is the ONLY way we can get a REALLY good starter back in a trade.

        You guys keep saying, trade Marco, trade Trevor. For what? You think Denvers gonna say, “ya, what the hell, I’ll take Belly and Ariza for Melo. No problem”.

        It doesn’t work like that. And starting Marcus Thornton isn’t going to keep Chris Paul here. Strengthening the team from top to bottom IS.

        I’ve said it a million times now. Trading Marcus Thornton is the ONLY way we’re going to be able to seriously compete for a title this season because he’s the only way we can get a GREAT player. And I still think packaging him with Peja would have landed us a better player, albeit a more expensive one, with a less than desirable contract.

      • MaskedTalent

        December 28, 2010 at 12:56 pm

        …..Marcus Thornton is NOT Kobe….Lebron…Wade…Durant….or even a Melo. STOP putting him a pedastil as if he is an ultimate gamechanger. if that was so, then he would shoot more then 3-11 from the field. He had some good games and some poor games.
        he’s good but not amongst the elite status.
        We just need more players to step up. I think players just need to practice more. Because as a whole(besides Paul,West and maybe OKafor), the team is playing ugly. We can all agree on that.

      • AgentZiko

        December 28, 2010 at 5:42 pm

        Masked. Is that comment towards me or Bees? I don’t have him on a pedestal, I think we should trade him is what I said.

      • BeesGivingEffort

        December 28, 2010 at 5:56 pm

        @Ziko – I have never once said that I would not trade Marcus to get an impact player in return. Not once. There is one flaw in your plan. I don’t think the NBA will allow the Hornets to spend one dime more than they already are this season, and definitely won’t let them go over the cap.

      • AgentZiko

        December 28, 2010 at 8:46 pm

        Do agree with you there.

        I said all along. The “Peja-Jack” deal wasn’t done to “acquire” Jack. It was done to get under the cap. Later seen why with the NBA purchasing the Hornets.

        We didn’t get better. We lost our mojo with that trade. And we lost the ability to land a premier player like Iggy to give us a “Solid 3” in CP, West, and Iggy.

        Now? We’ll make some small trade and acquire a guy like Brandon Wright, or Josh Howard, and management will act like they “tried” to make a big move at the deadline but couldn’t land one, and the team will keep the exemption and use it against their payroll to keep them $4 million under the cap.

        Sad. We were headed to such a great direction at the start of the season.

      • 42

        December 28, 2010 at 9:09 pm

        I don’t see how the trade made us worse, given what Peja and The Great Kazoo were doing for us.

        I also don’t think the NBA would not purchase the team on the basis of being over the tax line, basically $5m difference, and let a team embarassingly default instead.

        I’m open-minded, but I don’t see it up to this point.

      • Hornet Seantonio

        December 29, 2010 at 11:41 am

        @bees stern already said we can go over the salary cap because he wants the organization to run as if they were any other team. he understands every team basically goes over the cap and especially if it can make us a better team now. id say hed encourage it because it would make us a more attractive product to potential buyers

    • MaskedTalent

      December 28, 2010 at 7:39 pm

      That was directed towards Bees. He has him on the pedastil.

  16. Brazilian Hornet

    December 28, 2010 at 12:35 pm

    Marco Belinelli is a hoax invented and consistently maintained by Mr. Monty Williams. Nobody can stand the most miserable performances that player. It is too bad. How Green isn’t playing, I’d give Marcus Thornton more than 30 minutes per game. After all, to see Belinelli in court gives me nausea.

    • NOLABanks96

      December 28, 2010 at 12:55 pm

      @Ziko First off, we wont land melo straight up. NJ & NY are the front runners and that most likely isntt changin unless Houston or Dallas goes for him. Second keepin MT is key because like said b4, given the minutes he is a perennial all star. Ariza & Marco package might not land us melo but it definelty can land us a key player. Also in a case if CP3 leaves, we have someone to fall back on which is Marcus.

      • AgentZiko

        December 28, 2010 at 5:44 pm

        NOLA buddy, I was being sarcastic about the Melo trade.

        We can get more for Thornton and the Exemption than we can for Ariza or Marco. And you can’t trade them both. Unless you were getting a guy like Melo, you can’t trade them both.

  17. Pingback: Hornets on the Internets: Ugh Edition | Blogging Master

  18. QueenBee

    December 28, 2010 at 3:02 pm

    Found this little nugget in ESPN’s David Thorpe’s chat…

    Jobin (Hawaii)

    Which player becomes a starter and stays a starter, first – Marcus Thorton or Kleiza?

    David Thorpe (12:01 PM)

    Thornton, and it should have happened a month ago.

  19. Mikey

    December 28, 2010 at 3:08 pm

    I didn’t get to see the game last night. Sounds like it was good for my emotional well-being that I missed it, after reading some of the comments.

    A quick point about starting… In the NBA, its about minutes (and when you play them), not about being in the starting lineup. The last few games I’ve caught, I’ve seen a backcourt consisting of Thornton + Paul or Thornton + Jack + Paul. That tells me that Coach Williams is smelling what most of you are stepping in. Over the last three games, Belly is averaging right at 25 minutes a game, and Thornton around 21 minutes, with Thornton getting the lion’s share of the minutes in the 4th quarter. I’d like to see that differential maybe reversed in Thornton’s favor, but that’s not a bad ratio, given he was in a suit for most of the first month of the season. What’s concerning of late with the SG position, Marco especially, is they fall asleep in their defensive rotations, and leave wide open 3pt attempts. Marcus is prone to this problem as well.

    In my personal opinion, leave Marcus right where he is coming off the bench. He is comfortable in the 6th man role. If anything, just rotate him into the game sooner (vis a vis what Popovich does with Manu Ginoboli). Who really gives a damn who starts a game? That just means you get some really cheap firecrackers that pop off when your name is called in the Arena. I want the best players on the floor when its the optimal time for them to be successful and when the game is on the line.

    • 42

      December 28, 2010 at 3:16 pm

      Pubescent boys focus on the start. Men finish.

      The fireworks have gotten better. There is room to improve, but they have gotten better. We go as the pyrotechnics go?

      • QueenBee

        December 28, 2010 at 7:03 pm

        I’m more concerned about finishes too but if you start off bad, it can sometimes do nothing but go downhill.

    • Hornets fan from KC

      December 28, 2010 at 3:40 pm

      Unfortunately the reason Thorntons minutes have increased is because Green has been away at a funeral. When he comes back I am sure Monty will dip into Marcus minutes. Marco should play in garbage time and that is it. If you want to start Green I am fine with that but thornton should get the most minutes. Monty has a monster ego though and he is going to show that he is in charge by continuing to run Marco out there at Thortons expense. If he thinks Marco is a better defender he is not qualified to be a head coach in the NBA period. We would be better off with Jeff Bower coaching this team.

    • BeesGivingEffort

      December 28, 2010 at 6:04 pm

      @Mikey – 21 minutes is not enough. Marcus is not closing out most of the games. Unless he is completely TORCHING the opponents (and sometimes not even then), Belinelli is the closer. Marcus got pulled with 6 minutes left vs. NJ (18 pts on 7/10 shooting) in favor of Belinelli playing with the starters and the starters proceeded to let NJ back into the game.

      Fact of the matter is that Monty does not view Marcus as Jason Terry or Manu. Monty views him as a bench player, not a 6th man, not a closer, not superior to Marco. Just a bench player.

  20. bgalella

    December 28, 2010 at 4:48 pm

    Michael Beasley had an amazing game last night, but this is a team the Hornets have to beat.

  21. nikkoewan

    December 28, 2010 at 10:32 pm

    its the marcus talk again. I hope Michael posts a blog about Marcus..
    on to the topic, i like marcus. i really do. i’m planning on buying his jersey(i hope i can find one). but here are things i would like to say regarding the topic, without following any trail of thought.

    Marcus Thornton should start. that much i can say. But IMO, he is being brought slowly. He still has some bad defensive possessions. He is trying, but he is slowly getting their. notice that in the past 7 games, he has played below 20 minutes only twice. And i am lead to believe that this won’t happen when Green comes back.
    Marco is just having a slump and i mean a slump(his career numbers direct otherwise). i feel like change is coming soon. Either we trade cookie, marcus or green. i think the possibility of being traded is in that same order. its funny. people we’re praising him all preseason and at the start of the season. I think he deserves some credit. i just wish he can come back to being the November Belinelli. 47% 2 3’s per game 13.3 PPG that hurts, and along with an explosive Marcus Thornton off the bench, that’s a crazy 1-2 punch. Just be patient.

    • Hornets fan from KC

      December 29, 2010 at 9:30 am

      The point is Monty’s stubborness to acknowledge that Marco is brutal on defense. I don’t give a sh**t about his shooting slump. Monty claims marcus gets less minutes because of his bad plave end of the court. Marco is the worst defensive player I have seen this year in the league. As I stated earlier his defense rivals Peja’s. Monty can’t have it both ways. If Marcus sits or is inactive (what a joke) then Marco shouldn’t be allowed in the arena.

      • 42

        December 29, 2010 at 1:12 pm

        You are wrong about Marco’s defense. You are also wrong about Peja’s.

        Monty can have it any way he wants because he’s a millionaire coach that Chris Paul lobbied to get.

        Marcus needs minutes to continue his vast improvement as a total player, and they better not drop more than 5m when Green comes back. I’m very excited to see him and his role on the team evolve. I really don’t want to see that go away.

      • AgentZiko

        December 29, 2010 at 1:51 pm

        I don’t get how you see Marco as being a bad defender. 1 on 1, he is a REALLY solid defender. I honestly don’t understand why Monty has played SOOO much zone. Especially with the first unit. Zone makes sense when Marcus is in the game, because he has trouble staying in front of his man. But when Marco is in the game, he does a solid job 1 on 1. As the seasons progressed, I’ve seen more zone. We do a pretty good job in our rotations, but I think the guys burn out after awhile. There’s a lot of movement in that zone. I dont think it should be played as much.

      • Hornets fan from KC

        December 29, 2010 at 4:58 pm

        Nope not wrong about either of their defense. Peja couldn’t guard me and I don’t believe Marco could either. Never closes out on his man as they are draining the threes. When he is up on his man they blow right by him. Watch the first three minutes of the second half of the Detroit game again. Even Monty couldn’t leave him out there after Detroit hit three straight from behind the line to open up the half. He just finished making Wesly Johnson a one night sensation. His defense is terrible as a coach myself it is easy to see. Monty knows it too but whatever reason doesn’t like Marcus. I never even touched on the the offense end where once again Marco can’t carry Thorntons jock.

      • AgentZiko

        December 29, 2010 at 5:07 pm

        Go back and watch again. They were in a zone defense. That’s the GROUPS fault, not Marco’s. The whole group is a half second behind in their rotations, forcing guys to help towards the middle.

      • 42

        December 29, 2010 at 5:49 pm

        Yes, you are wrong. It’s ok. Defense is tough to see. You’ll learn.



        Second, listen to Ziko. The guy plays, makes good points, and can tell you what to look for to help you see what he sees (a rare gift).

        Third, there is no way in the world a coach will not try to win the game based on his personal like for a player. Guys have tendencies, habits, philosophies, etc. that are hard or they are unwilling to alter, but like doesn’t enter into it.

  22. paul

    December 28, 2010 at 10:41 pm

    .Silly fan talk.
    The trade banter is as bad as it is wrong.
    The complex rules and money game leave us all out in the cold…
    So we will see soon if any trades will take place.
    Right now the team is mid to low level…at best.
    Loosing against teams they should beat easily and winning surprise games against stronger teams.
    No, we have a team that is mid to low level tier and lucky to see the second round.
    Big Ass Deal.
    You want fans to invest season tickets in this team…then become a knowable team, a team you an count on for a good time every time.
    We need fewer Bad losses and more Good losses.
    That shows growth.

    There is no center option. No center for stability.
    I will say this until he’s gone…MBenga is a pretender, a clown in basketball clothes.
    Shame on this coaching staff for trying to pretend he is what we should fall behind.
    I am so sick of this plan.
    2 minutes, 1 foul and no points.
    Against THIS team!!!

    Look, coach! If you won’t play Gray…trade him. You need players, other teams are begging for big centers.
    Trade him and enjoy MBenga’s flopping hands, moving picks and fouls per minutes.
    I can’t.

    I gotta stop watching this young and confused coach and his love for his game plan and poor player development and rotation

  23. Thornton's Thunder

    December 28, 2010 at 11:47 pm

    As my name shows, I am a Marcus Fan! More importantly, I am a Hornet’s Fan!!! Please know that Marcus isn’t the same player. Why? None of us knows for sure, but I can only state what I see. I see that each time the horn sounds, Marcus looks to the bench to see if he’s out of the game! I see that when he misses a shot, he looks to the bench to see if he’s out! I see that when Paul has many opportunities to feed Marcus the ball, HE DOESN’T! In fact, I’ve seen times when Marcus (along with 3 other guys) are posted in position, while Paul dribbles most of the shot clock away, only to pass the ball off at the last minute, then expecting great things to happen. I see that Marcus seems afraid to play as he should, for fear that he’d be placed back on the bench (often times, this is exactly what happens), but I believe we all lose in the end. Monty is paid to see exactly what is happening amongst his players, and if these personal issues are affecting play, he has an obligation to make it right. We’ve seen other guys get burned, refuse to hustle at times, have repeated needless violations, but rarely do they fear being pulled from the game. Something is wrong, and if we cannot manage these things, we won’t be successful (plain and simple). Everyone remembers Thornton/Collison last season…they played with excitement, fantastic energy and unbelievable will. I realize that this isn’t the same team, but we are clearly lacking that heart which was so evident last season. Afterall, Marcus’ heart isn’t the same, and I can assure you that sort of thing doesn’t just happen by choice. Perhaps we refuse to look at some of the obvious, can some of you see the game beyond the stats… if you do, you’ll see that something is wrong! Go Marcus, Go Hornets!!!! We are behind you all the way!!!!!

    • Hornet Seantonio

      December 29, 2010 at 11:48 am

      A lot of the time to me it appears if Marcus is trying to hard, he is hustling way to much and hes trying to be superman out there to impress the coach fans etc. On defense its his speed that hurts him, he will fly to the perimeter to guard his man then fly to a double team down low, then jump at a pass and then his guy is standing right there on the perimeter. Hes the kind of player a highschool coach would die for because of the sheeer effort, but obviously montys not impressed. Marcus should probably slow down and just make sure HIS man doesnt score any points not worry about anyone else then hed have a better chance of seeing more minutes.

      • AgentZiko

        December 29, 2010 at 1:53 pm

        I agree with Sean. Marcus is still working on his footwork.

  24. Taquito

    December 29, 2010 at 9:34 pm

    i dont exactly agree with West “Showing up”, sure he scored but he got as many rebounds as Luke Ridnour, a starting that gets as many rebounds as the other team’s starting pg? unacceptable

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