Pacers defeat Hornets on Last Second Tip

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Published: December 20, 2010

And you thought last night’s game was a tough one to swallow? The Hornets drop yet another game that they could have won, falling 94-93 to the Pacers.  Ex- Hornets James Posey and Darren Collison combined to score 33 points on 13 of 18 shooting while the player they received in that trade, Trevor Ariza, went 1-13 from the field. Sorry, I just threw up a little bit as I wrote that.

Posey hit a huge three-pointer with 16 seconds left to give Indiana a 92-91 lead, but David West came right back and drilled a jumper set up b CP3 with 3.9 seconds left to put New Orleans back up by one. That is where we get to the controversy. Danny Granger took a 21 footer that rattled around the rim before Mike Dunleavy tipped it in right before the buzzer. Was the ball still on the rim? All that matters is the refs said No… I will leave it up to all of you to say otherwise.

Biggest surprise of the night? CP3 with a 4:6 Assist to turnover ratio. I honestly can’t even justify it. Maybe he was pressing? Maybe he was tired from the night before? I don’t know. I doubt we will ever see that again, but we saw it tonight and it would have been concerning even if Dunleavy’s illegal tip did not happen.

On the plus side- Okafor played his best game since the first Miami game, on both sides of the court. He went off for 19 and 15 while only missing one shot and he held Roy   to 1 of 10 shooting. It seems like this is a good matchup for Okafor, as his firm base gives him an advantage over Hibbert, who just has no balance whatsoever.

That is about all I can say on the positive side for this game. It was an ugly first half for the Hornets who came out hot in the 3rd quarter before falling short at the buzzer. Again, I want to give my best wishes to Willie Green and his family and I know all the prayers of the Hornets247 nation are with them.

79 Comments

  1. DownUnder

    December 20, 2010 at 10:05 pm

    Tough night to look back at the Ariza, Collison and Posey trade thats for sure.

    • 42

      December 21, 2010 at 6:21 am

      By Jazz logic, Collison is a better 3 guard than Ariza.

      Jack’s performance, which was better than fine, doesn’t enter into it, despite what Mr. McNamara said in the podcast.

      I haven’t seen many commets over there by the way. Go check it out. If nothing else, you’ll hear her (indirectly) hate my guts, which many will love to hear…

  2. Hornet

    December 20, 2010 at 10:05 pm

    Hornets deserved to lose but not like that…. That ball was on the rim, total crowd pleasing decision by the refs. If that game was played in New Orleans, no shot that it counts.

    Anyways, Demps was able to admit to a mistake with Bayless, trade him and get an upgrade. Do you think he’d be willing to admit a mistake on Ariza and go after Wallace and use the TPE to take in a bad contract so that Charlotte considers? Because honestly, I really think he’s the biggest reason we’re losing. Obvious reasons on offense, but on defense he looks disinterested on games like this and only really shows his full skills when he’s matched up against someone like Durant.

    • NOLABanks96

      December 20, 2010 at 10:14 pm

      heres a wallace trade 3 team
      http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=29gb6wr

      Or we cud jus do Ariza & Green / Wallace & Derrick Brown or Diop

      • AgentZiko

        December 21, 2010 at 9:48 am

        LoL. NOLA buddy. TOO MUCH. Make it simple. You don’t have to give away half our roster for 2 players.

  3. Will Bennett

    December 20, 2010 at 10:08 pm

    Indeed, MOST importantly- thoughts and prayers out to WG’s fam.

    Ariza not popular right now! He really is a depressing, lethargic player. Let me play for the hornets, ill try harder than him.

    DC is a superb point guard.

    It seems hornets fans are very quick to swing their opinions on who is the weak link and should be traded. One week its Okafor, next Belli, and now Trevor. I’d like everyones opinion on where the upgrade needs to come. Our bench is so solid, i wish we had a more potent starting 5.

    Still love the hornets- always will.

    • Mark

      December 20, 2010 at 10:18 pm

      I have lots of friends who are Rockets fans (schooling in Houston), and last season after all the injuries, they made the point that Ariza is NOT an offensive player and should not be relegated as such.

      He’s taking almost 10 shots a game when he should be ONLY allocated about 6-7. The best players know their strength and weakness, and Ariza needs to know he’s purely a great defensive player.

      • QueenBee

        December 20, 2010 at 10:44 pm

        We know Ariza isn’t an offensive player. We knew that before he got here. Now we need to hope Monty realizes it while Ariza is still in a Hornets uniform.

    • Michael McNamara

      December 20, 2010 at 10:26 pm

      The fact is that this is a 2 man team that gets contributions sparatically from others- therefore fans will shift their disappointment on a night to night basis. The Hornets need one more guy who they can count on night in and night out and then each one of the current players can shift down a peg.

      Ariza would be fine if he had a Kevin Martin or Stephan Jackson at the 2 to take the pressure off. Okafor would then be a 5th option and so on and so on. This team overachieved with their effort in the first 12 games, but now they are playing to preseason expectations. The question is: Can we get that big piece to fill out this roster and put guys in positions where they can succeed?

      • AgentZiko

        December 21, 2010 at 9:54 am

        VERY much agree with you Mike. I was all Iggy to start the season. But the more I thought about your reasoning, the more I agreed, Captain Jack should be our guy. If we can land him and move Belly to back up 3 man, and have him and Ariza come in for each other, and Green in for Jack, we’d have a VERY solid wing rotation. And yes, that means trading the exemption alongside Thornton to get that. Waiting for the complaints…

      • Halloniusfunk

        December 22, 2010 at 3:10 pm

        God please not Stephen Jackson. I just moved here from the Bay Area, Warriors fan for the last 15 years, and his act will wear thin real quick. He’s amazing when he is playing team ball, the team is winning, and the calls go his way. But after about a year or so the tech’s will start mounting, the ball hogging bad shots, and the attitude will come out and it will drive you nuts. Gerald Wallace seems like a good guy who can score the ball and play solid D. Get him quick!

    • 42

      December 21, 2010 at 6:34 am

      We are vastly improved from last year. Building every one of these playera we have now has the abolity to have a good game. The issue is they don’t have them often enough. That will come in time if Monty is a coach that can develop players and Demps doesn’t ship them out for a better piece.

      This is not a quick fix.

      All of them won’t make it. One or two will.

      Marcus didn’t have a strong game offensively, but he got a ton of rebounds. He will again. Marco finally came alive, but was frustrated early. And on and on.

      We just need these role players to be consistent enough so that two of them are hot at the same time to help us win.

    • 504ever

      December 21, 2010 at 5:12 pm

      Will Bennett this is a great point:

      “It seems hornets fans are very quick to swing their opinions on who is the weak link and should be traded. One week its Okafor, next Belli, and now Trevor. I’d like everyones opinion on where the upgrade needs to come. Our bench is so solid, i wish we had a more potent starting 5.”

      Also, we should all remember this is Bellinelli’s first year as an NBA starter. Its a huge leap from role player to starter in the NBA because you have to bring it every night. Plus Bellinelli has to guard the opposing team’s best scorer. Expect Bellinelli to improve during this season.

  4. Mark

    December 20, 2010 at 10:13 pm

    Dunleavy’s tip was legal. And we didn’t lose at the buzzer: Cookies with 0-4 FT. Inexcusable from an O guard. Or I guess Ariza with 1-13, but that’s depressingly to be expected now.

    Hard to hear about Green. Hope he stays blessed. And to all our community: be safe these holidays.

    • 504ever

      December 21, 2010 at 5:23 pm

      Here is the NBA rule on goaltending that applies here: Goaltending includes “b. Touch[ing] the ball when it is above the basket ring and within the imaginary cylinder.”

      A (significant) part of the ball was above the basket ring in the imaginary cylinder. So I think you are incorrect. It was goaltending.

      • Mark

        December 21, 2010 at 7:37 pm

        “c. For goaltending to occur, the ball, in the judgment of the official, must have a chance to score.”

        The ball was on its way out. They were replaying the shot a million times on NBA TV. Unfortunate course of events, but the rim was no longer supporting the ball.

      • 504ever

        December 21, 2010 at 11:04 pm

        Mark,

        I don’t know what rule you are reading, but it sounds like the DEFENSIVE goaltending rule. If a ball is rimming out but still over the rim the offensive player can’t touch it. Here is the actual NBA rule:

        “RULE NO. 11—BASKET INTERFERENCE—GOALTENDING
        Section I—A Player Shall Not… b. Touch the ball when it is above the basket ring and within the imaginary cylinder.”

        The part c. you quoted is not part of the NBA rules because each letter covers a separate situation. Here is the actual part c: “c. During a field goal attempt, touch a ball, which has a chance to score, after it has
        touched any part of the backboard above ring level, whether the ball is considered on its
        upward or downward flight.”

        So, Mark, I guess I am calling you a liar and Indy fan.

  5. NOLABanks96

    December 20, 2010 at 10:15 pm

    Can we redo that Ariza trade?

    • Hornetsky

      December 20, 2010 at 10:51 pm

      Maybe you mean undo.

  6. MaxALM

    December 20, 2010 at 10:29 pm

    We are truly pathetic on the road. We can’t even beat the Pistons, Clippers, or 76ers. The moment the crowd gets even remotely rowdy for the other team, the Hornets just crap their pants.

    One good performance against the Jazz, and Ariza thinks he has the keys to this offense? I can only assume that Monty neglected to tell Ariza to STOP SHOOTING!!! If he had even gone 2-for-13, we’d have won. Nope….1-for-13, thanks.

    • MaxALM

      December 20, 2010 at 10:30 pm

      trade his ass.

    • QueenBee

      December 20, 2010 at 10:59 pm

      “The moment the crowd gets even remotely rowdy for the other team, the Hornets just crap their pants.”

      The Hornets just crap their pants along with the refs showing off for the crowd.

      • QueenBee

        December 20, 2010 at 11:01 pm

        Heck, the Hornets have even been treated like a road team in their own arena lately. If the next time it comes down to a questionable call in the NO Arena, I’d like to see how the officials react.

  7. Rocco

    December 20, 2010 at 10:34 pm

    Sometimes you can win for losing. That tip in ughhhh.
    Okafor was great. Nice to see the team come back twice from double digit deficits on the road. Belinelli finally puts together a solid all around game on the floor , but 0-fers on four fts (pullin my hair out). Hang tough pollenators, I still believe they are closer to the team that blew out the jazz by 29 rather than the last second losers of the past two night.

    My thoughts and prayers to Willie Green and his family on the tragedy which befell them.

  8. Hornetsky

    December 20, 2010 at 10:50 pm

    We have a lot of very adequate role players but we need to have that third scoring punch consistently on nightly basis. This team needs to play better away from the Hive, or we will only be hovering in 0.500 mark which is not enough to get to the playoffs in the west.

    Prayers to Willie G.

  9. QueenBee

    December 20, 2010 at 10:51 pm

    Why are you guys fussing about Ariza? It was Chris Paul’s fault that the Hornets lost right? Isn’t it always his fault?

    And Dunleavy’s tip was not legal. How much you guys wanna bet that coming up in the near future, the Hornets will be in the same situation, a Hornet will tap the ball on a rim and will be called for offensive basket interference? Watch what I tell you.

    • DownUnder

      December 20, 2010 at 11:14 pm

      Ariza just stands out the most but your right even if you are being a little sarcastic, Chris Paul played a part in this, as did Marco, D-West. All under performing in paarts of this game. And its also Posey’s fault he had no right to make all those shots 2-3 of them at the end of a shot clock lol.

      • QueenBee

        December 21, 2010 at 12:05 am

        Yeah, CP’s not the reason we win anymore. He’s only the reason we lose.

    • BeesGivingEffort

      December 20, 2010 at 11:24 pm

      Well, now that you mention it (albeit very sarcastically), Chris got outplayed tonight. He looks disinterested at times and I can’t believe he didn’t get fired up to play DC. Oh, one last thing. That whole, “I’m gonna wait until someone comes and picks me up, even if I’m 25 feet away from the team” thing is ridiculous and annoying to watch.

  10. DownUnder

    December 20, 2010 at 11:08 pm

    Despite his cold shooting Marcus Thornton had another great game. 11!!! rebounds in 21 minutes, 6 offensive thats hustle my friends and he had some tough shots that helped others like the put-back dunk by J Smith which could only happen because Buckets drew away 3 players under the basket. This boy can play!

    • 42

      December 21, 2010 at 6:41 am

      Yup, great game.

      I applaud Monty for challenging him. I question the timing of his return, but it’s water under the bridge. Marcus is a better player than a year ago and will continue to get better. He could be scary good next year.

  11. BeesGivingEffort

    December 20, 2010 at 11:34 pm

    I don’t see it as all doom and gloom. For one, we were in this game til the end despite off shooting performances from Ariza/Paul/Thornton. This is the type of game we would have lost by 20-25 points a week and a half ago. To me, we really had to try hard to screw both of these games up at the end and we managed to find a way to do it. Trevor needs to play within himself and he will be worth the money we gave him. I don’t know why he thinks he developed a fall away mid-range jumper in the off-season. It’s simple. Stop hesitating, take your open threes, live with the results. If you are willing to go 1-13 from the field on any given night, you have to have the dang nuts to take a wide-open three ball. I don’t know any player in the NBA that shoots a higher percentage after he hesitates when he’s wide open.

  12. BeesGivingEffort

    December 20, 2010 at 11:38 pm

    oh and taken from Yahoo! sports

    http://sports.yahoo.com/fantasy/blog/roto_arcade/post/Court-Report-Week-9-Dashboard-Part-II?urn=fantasy-298012

    ҉ۢ Marcus Thornton(notes), SG, NO (32% owned)
    The rationale given by first-year coach Monty Williams for keeping Thornton buried in the depth chart and glued to the bench just won’t fly anymore. Unless he has some sort of vendetta and grudge against him that we don’t know about, there isn’t a single (good) reason not to give Thornton the lion’s share of the minutes at the 2. Not only is he unquestionably the greater talent and more important to the team’s long term plans, but he has outperformed Belinelli by a comfortable margin this season. You can talk all you want about Thornton’s defensive shortcomings, but he leads the team in unadjusted defensive rating (-8.19 net) amongst players with at least 200 minutes. The Hornets allow 0.94 points per possession (PPP) when he’s on the court and 1.02 PPP when he’s off. Belinelli on the other hand comes in dead last with an adjusted defensive rating of +9.37 net. The Hornets allow 1.05 PPP with him on the court, and just 0.95 PPP when he’s off. Add on Thornton’s well-known offensive exploits (only player on this roster who has the potential to score 20 points in a given quarter), and you get the picture. Thornton dropped 19 points off the bench in 24 minutes of action in two of his last three games, and although there are no real guarantees given Williams’ erratic usage of Thornton (just 12 minutes in Sunday’s overtime loss), he is well worth the shot. Consider him both a must- and speculative add at this point … a musculative add, if you will.”

    • Mark

      December 21, 2010 at 1:00 am

      “…but he leads the team in unadjusted defensive rating (-8.19 net) amongst players with at least 200 minutes”

      To be honest, I’m surprised he’s even played 200 minutes under Monty.

  13. lance

    December 21, 2010 at 1:23 am

    My dream trade is Gerald Wallace, and Tyrus Thomas for Marco, and Ariza. We throw them 6mil worth of Peja’s trade exception, and they get to slice money from their books.

    We would run with a rotation of

    CP/Jack
    Thornton/Willie
    Gerald/Qpon
    Dwest/JSmith
    Oak/TThomas

    Why can’t we has that?
    Can we please has that?

    • ur_gmas_daughter

      December 21, 2010 at 1:32 am

      If it were up to me…you could haz

      • QueenBee

        December 21, 2010 at 2:02 am

        ROFLMAO.

    • AgentZiko

      December 21, 2010 at 9:59 am

      Tyrus Thomas is reportedly the only UNTOUCHABLE on the Bobcats roster, believe it or not. And why would the Bobcats do that trade? It doesn’t help them.

  14. Hornetsky

    December 21, 2010 at 2:12 am

    This is how we get Melo and get rid of Ariza.
    http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=3xc89bs

    • QueenBee

      December 21, 2010 at 2:20 am

      How much do you know about Denver’s new GM? Is he a fool? LOL.

  15. QueenBee

    December 21, 2010 at 2:15 am

  16. QueenBee

    December 21, 2010 at 2:18 am

    Also, the Hornets need to learn how to shoot free throws. What’s the sense in getting to the line if you miss a slew of free throws? Yeah, the opposing player being called for a foul may make him play defense a bit differently but no sense in even getting to the ft line if you can’t make free throws. The Hornets have been leaving too many points at the line lately. Players you don’t even expect to miss ft’s are missing them. If Marco had made even half of his tonight the Hornets would have most likely won. Even if it would have been by 1 or 2 points, they would have won. Marco missed all 4 of his free throws. Child please.

    • Hornetsky

      December 21, 2010 at 2:50 am

      Paul is leading the league in FT%. Maybe he can organize a free throw shooting clinic in practice.LOL

      • QueenBee

        December 21, 2010 at 12:56 pm

        Yeah, maybe he should. But if they miss their free throws, it’ll end up being Chris Paul’s fault. SMH.

    • f.g. di bene

      December 21, 2010 at 3:58 pm

      maybe if marcus made even one more of his forced shots tonight the Hornets would have most likely won.

  17. NOEngineer

    December 21, 2010 at 4:19 am

    The only player that can be proud of this game is Okafor.

    West, Ariza, and Paul shot horribly from the field, CP3 and Jack played sloppy and loose, Belly missed everything from the line, and the reserves were mediocre at best. It sucks to lose because the only Hornet around the basket at that last shot was the point guard. I think the refs blew the call as well, but it was damn close.

    Ariza cannot be allowed to touch the ball in the last 8 seconds of the shot clock.

    Hopefully the Hornets’ run of bad luck will equalize soon…..

  18. Brazilian Hornet

    December 21, 2010 at 8:36 am

    What to speak of a SG (holder) who throws four free throws in a game and misses everyone? Yes, friends. Again, the lack of talent by Marco Belinelli in yielding just one more defeat. If this bastard to hit even half of the four missed free throws, we would have won the game.

    As Chris Paul doesn’t want to play the Hornets, I just trade it along with the bad Belinelli and the Okafor’ absurd contract for a good SG and good C. Staying losing to Pistons and Pacers is very ashamed. And remember that a month ago, our campaign was 11-1. Can you believe it?

    • Brazilian Hornet

      December 21, 2010 at 8:43 am

      Oh, and Ariza with the ball in the hands of the players is a most terrible of all the NBA. His inability to get points also harms us. Because Dell Demps loves conduct trades, he could think about the next steps. For me, Belinelli and Ariza are totally expendable.

      • f.g. di bene

        December 21, 2010 at 3:56 pm

        beli, the only one who made a solid performance. sell him as soon as possible.

    • QueenBee

      December 21, 2010 at 2:03 pm

      Both Pistons and Pacers have beaten some pretty good teams this season. Nothing to do with Chris paul not wanting to play for the Hornets. When the Hornets win, nobody pulls the “chris paul doesn’t want to play for the Hornets” out of their asses.

      • QueenBee

        December 21, 2010 at 2:04 pm

        Maybe Belinelli and Ariza don’t want to play with the Hornets since they suck on a regular d*mn nightly basis.

  19. Thornton's Thunder

    December 21, 2010 at 9:11 am

    First and foremost, I know I speak on behalf of al of us when I say that our thoughts and prayers go out to Willie Green and his entire family through this most difficult time. As hornets season ticket holders, we had the pleasure of attending the game in Indy. We were loud (I believe louder than the entire arena). But what a disappointing loss! Are the stats correct, did we actually have a foul to give at the end of the game. Could we have actually committed that foul and taken time off the clock, thus giving Indiana even less time to shoot? I don’t understand… It happens and we move on! Speaking of moving on, we look forward to joining some REAL fans in the hive on Wednesday night. Geaux Hornets!

    • Davey

      December 21, 2010 at 9:30 am

      One small positive note in a depressing game was Thornton’s willingness to drive and kick. He’s always going to be a gunner and his ability to be a reasonably efficient scorer at high volumes is his best feature, but he will develop into a more effective player if he can mix in a few assists. Promising that he was able to find ways to contribute in this game even when his shot wasn’t falling.

      This was the slowest-looking I’ve ever seen Paul in a game. He veered between sloppy and invisible. Lead feet on both offense and defense. Hopefully it was just one of those games (and it was the second night of a back to back of course)…but when he’s not elite, we’re a mediocre team at best. Indeed, that’s what this game felt like: two mediocre teams slugging it out.

      • QueenBee

        December 21, 2010 at 1:57 pm

        “This was the slowest-looking I’ve ever seen Paul in a game. He veered between sloppy and invisible. Lead feet on both offense and defense. Hopefully it was just one of those games (and it was the second night of a back to back of course)…”

        So apparently we need more consistency from Chris Paul too then. Just against Utah some were saying this is the fastest he’s looked in a while. I guess that was a fluke and we’re now back to slow, broke down Paul.

    • QueenBee

      December 21, 2010 at 2:02 pm

      About the foul to give, Monty had this to say about it.

      “We talked about a foul to give and when Danny Granger gets the ball in the shooting positions, that’s not something you want to do”…

      http://www.nba.com/hornets/news/122010_pgq_NOHIND.html

      There looked to be quite a few Hornets fans in attendance. I always hope the Hornets can pull out the win for their fans in enemy territory. Sorry they didn’t get it for you last night. 🙁

    • BeesGivingEffort

      December 21, 2010 at 8:36 pm

      Ya’ll were on CST at the end of the game with very disappointed/pissed off faces!

  20. AgentZiko

    December 21, 2010 at 10:12 am

    Honestly, I think that this team had a down night because of the atmosphere surrounding them. This is a really good group of guys who are all supportive of each other. I think Willie Green’s loss stuck to all of them. I bet you that all night long they were distracted thinking that it could have been ANY of their family members that it happened to.

    Ariza was there in LA when Lamar Odom lost his baby, and it just so happened that Ariza was JUST aboud to have his first child. And you could see the stress and fear it brought him then.

    These guys live such priviledged lives. They play BASKETBALL for a living. I think sometimes the delicacy of life gets past them in their lifestyles. So when something like this happens, it doesn’t just hit the individual it happens to. It sends a shockwave to the whole team.

    I think Willie’s loss hit home for to whole team. And I am VERY sorry to Willie and his family and send my thoughts and prayers to them. I hope that when he returns, this is something that brings this group closer together.

    Not upset, nor surprised by the loss. Saw it coming when I heard of Willies situation. I figured there would be distraction, pain, suffering. Thats the sign of a TEAM.

    • QueenBee

      December 21, 2010 at 12:55 pm

      That is definitely a sad, sad situation. You know those guys get close to each other. I’m sure he was on their minds. He was on my mind so I’m pretty sure he was on theirs as well.

  21. edbballin504

    December 21, 2010 at 12:52 pm

  22. bgalella

    December 21, 2010 at 1:01 pm

    These are the games that prevent teams from making the playoffs.

  23. bgalella

    December 21, 2010 at 1:03 pm

    These are the type of games that prevent teams from making the playoffs, just a horrible loss

  24. matt

    December 21, 2010 at 1:28 pm

    I think you guys need to talk about Ariza’s lack of production and flesh it out some more. I think he should be our top trade chip and I think we should trade him as soon as possible. He provides no spacing, and while his defense is good, I don’t think it makes up for his horrendous offensive performances. He is a 6th man, and he should never be a starter.

    • QueenBee

      December 21, 2010 at 2:08 pm

      Ariza has been soooo disappointing. I think the best thing he did all season was to hit that 3 in the Miami game to pretty much seal the deal. This guy should NOT being doing more than this on offense. If he’s not being spotted up for the occasional 3 pointer or a slash to the rim, he shouldn’t be involved on offense at all. I forgot which game it was but it was in the past 2 or 3 games I had to laugh at Ariza. He tried to do this turn around shake jumper thing with a defender on him as if he was Kobe Bryant or something. Of course you know he bricked the hell out of the shot right? And here he wanted CP3 to make him an All-Star. Child please. LOL.

  25. hornetsss

    December 21, 2010 at 1:42 pm

    belinelli or ariza needs to go, get rip hamilton for belinelli or gerald wallace for ariza i don’t care how they do it, just get it done. ariza is better than hes been playing but the hornets style of play is terrible it only compliments west and paul as for belinelli this is as good as hes gonna get.

    • BeesGivingEffort

      December 21, 2010 at 8:38 pm

      HELL NO TO HAMILTON!

  26. QueenBee

    December 21, 2010 at 2:10 pm

    I was hoping that not only would they come out and play hard for themselves but at least play hard and try to get the win for Willie. But no. I’m seriously thinking about not watching the Hornets anymore in 2010. LOL. I need to end my year on a more happier note.

  27. 42

    December 21, 2010 at 4:53 pm

    These tight ones are packed with learning potential. We need to hope the boys have learned from the pain.

    It’s easy to act like no small change in your own play could have turned the tide when you get blown out, but two losses that essentially went down the wire no fewer than 3 times (think about it) has to force any player worth his salt to reflect. One turnover, one bad shot, one blow assignment, one free throw, etc.

    Yeah, this road trip was a disaster compared to what it should have been. We better learn from this.

    It’s easy to point at the flaw du jour as something that needs to be fixed or eliminated, but the truth is the issue is many small things that need to be worked out. We’ve made quite a few moves, but in truth there are only so many moves that can be made.

    I’d appreciate it if the players on here could discuss their experience with respect to this claim.

    • Mark

      December 21, 2010 at 7:47 pm

      I honestly haven’t kept up with watching individual games, but we could have line-up issues, primarily when and how we allocate minutes. I’m fine with the starting line-up, but we need Thornton at almost all times the secondary unit comes in (like a Ginobili/Terry “sixth” man, aka playing 30+ minutes).

      Ariza needs to be limited to maybe 6 in every quarter, effectively limiting him to ~27 minutes, Mek needs to play around 32 minutes (vs. ~30). Cookies needs to be on only when CP is (he stretches the D, but is ineffective without a distributor), Gray/Smith needs some minutes end of 1st and 3rd quarter, and I wouldn’t mind Q-Pon stealing some minutes here and there.

      • QueenBee

        December 21, 2010 at 8:00 pm

        “but we could have line-up issues, primarily when and how we allocate minutes.”

        Oh there’s no secret that this has been a huge problem as well.

  28. QueenBee

    December 21, 2010 at 11:56 pm

    OT:How in the heck did the Lakers lose to the Bucks without Brandon Jennings? I guess it can happen to any team right?

    • 42

      December 22, 2010 at 5:58 am

      I guess whichever Hornet we are mad at (Ariza still?) sucks so bad he can screw up the Lakers.

  29. Davey

    December 22, 2010 at 8:55 am

    “So apparently we need more consistency from Chris Paul too then. Just against Utah some were saying this is the fastest he’s looked in a while. I guess that was a fluke and we’re now back to slow, broke down Paul.”

    Ms. Bee, I’m not sure who was saying his Utah game was the fastest he’s looked in a while, but that’s not the game I saw. He did a very solid job of managing the game and he took advantage when Utah came out flat, but he wasn’t (by his standards) particularly explosive.

    Chris Paul did not play well against Indiana. It was his worst game this season, but the simplest explanation is, as I mentioned: second night of a back to back, just one of those games.

    No need to extrapolate beyond that, but to your broader point: Taking this season as a whole–other than flashes, Paul has been neither as fast nor as dominant as he was in his peak years, but he’s been the best point guard in the game nonetheless. His improved shooting and craftiness have mostly made up for the decrease in force-the-issue driving and playmaking that make him so unique at his best. The Hornets are basically a mediocre team with one super-elite player, so the boring truth is the Hornets success at the margin this season will largely come down to just HOW elite Paul is.

  30. paul

    December 22, 2010 at 9:34 am

    Look, I love a good defensive team.
    Like Monty believe, or any great coach, defense leads to offense and winning.
    However, there is another basic rule in most team sports…team ability up the middle.
    In football, this is the center and line.
    In baseball, its pitcher, second base, shortstop center field.
    In basketball…its the CENTER!
    Without some real big center that can pass, open lanes, block out and rebound…you don’t even have a chance.
    Oh, ya…you can win ball games, but you ain’t going anywhere in the playoffs.

    A center in basketball is the team base…its CENTER.
    He allows for others to do their jobs.
    He really is the big ugly to the other’s beauty.

    Monty has a different view.
    He wants a center that’s more athletic and more moving.
    Monty has designed a team entirely around this defensive plan and the center fits THAT qualification.
    However, on the other end of the floor, the philosophy fails over and over again.
    IF other teams had the same approach, it might be OK.
    But they HAVE these big team grounding centers that kill our smaller, faster footed defensive skilled guys.

    Sorry, Monty…but the game is so much more than what you want it to be.

    • 42

      December 22, 2010 at 10:20 am

      Okafor needs work on the sceens he sets and the inexpliable turnovers.

    • paul

      December 22, 2010 at 10:37 am

      42…
      Isn’t crap that we have a few players that are simply missing the total package.
      Oak should take some of Gray’s weight and then he can block/screen better.
      Gray should pratice the footbal running back rope drill until his legs fall off and he can lift his knees quicker.
      MBenga…well, I just wish he’d practice tossing eggs up and catching them giving him the hands needed… and try picking up an orange from the table quickly without making orange juice.

      • 42

        December 22, 2010 at 10:50 am

        I think you are agreeing with me and adding other area of improvement, except for the weight comment. His build isn’t going to change much this season. Adding points on offense to offset some of what he gives up on defense is perfectly accecptable.

        As you say: total package.

        No single player has it all. Chris would be a backup center at best….

      • paul

        December 22, 2010 at 11:57 am

        well, I meant total package for their particular position.
        It’s funny thinking about Paul at center, however.
        Paul is slightly short for me today.
        Like always, athletes become bigger and better through the years.
        Today, MY wish list PG is taller.
        I was just talking about the player of my dream at a specific position.
        Derric Rose is 6.3.
        Rajon Rondo 61.
        Chauncey Billups. 6.3
        Tony Parker 6.2
        Paul is 6.0.

        However, my kind of PG is taller.
        Dwyane Wade (6’4)
        Gilbert Arenas( 6’4)
        Lebron James (6’8)
        And Magic was 6.9.

        Andre Miller is 6.2.
        Crawford is 6.5.

        Yes, I was agreeing with you.

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